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BobboFitos

Aug
15
2011
GROUP COACHING!
Posted in Poker | View Comments (28)
 

Hey fellas, I am creating one (or, possibly, depending on turnout, two!) coaching groups. I've done a fair number of these in the past, and I'd say they've been wildly successful. I believe my students would say the same! I'm still figuring out details (as in, pricing) but it will be lower than what it was in the past.

In any event, please PM me, post comments, or message me on skype (robert,eckstut) if you're interested. I'll have clear guidelines soon, (which I'll probably just re-edit into this post) when those are settled.

THIS HAS BEEN EDITED IN, WAS TOO LARGE FOR A COMMENT:

Quote:
no offense
I don't take any offense at all Jason. I think all prospective students should ask similar questions, as they are all valid. So I'll just answer everything here...

Quote:
i'm curious how much online poker you have played in the past 2 years
Obviously not enough The past full year (from just after 2010 WSOP to now, including Black Friday) I actually had a losing year. I played just under 16,000 hands, so somewhat of a drop in the bucket. I also had a losing live year, although that's mainly attributable to this summer's performance. The previous year I am unsure how many hands I played, although I played a fair number more than this previous Aug-Aug, and with much better results.

Quote:
and what makes you think you can still effectively evaluate the state of the games?
The game has changed. To insist otherwise would be terrifically backward. That said, there are a few things going for me:
1. The more the game changes, the more it stays the same. The same concepts which are fundamental, proven, and vital to be a winning player haven't evaporated. In other words, I know that stuff inside and out.
2. To say I have a weak connection to the game isn't really true, either, as I have continued to coach throughout this period.
3. In some ways, not being in the midst of the changes actually helps one recognize them from a distance. For example, I know what trends were hot, I know how things have changed, and if there's one thing I can do, it's recognize patterns as well as anyone. This helps project how things will be. (As in, changes that haven't even yet occurred in the game!)

Quote:
I did your group coaching a while ago when i just started playing mid stakes 6max before I started playing any HU and I thought the coaching sessions were a decent form of group discussion and interaction, however the content wasn't necessarily up to par or worth the price.
One qualm here: If I recall correctly, for your purposes, you wanted to focus specifically HU play. Everyone else within the group was focusing on SH/6m. For your individualized sessions we did a bit of HU, (everyone else did not) so you're right, for you specifically the content probably wasn't the best bargain.

Quote:
I also recently read though some of the content in your book you put out ages ago, and I honestly do think the game has evolved to a point that makes a lot of that content that may have been very good 3 years ago pretty obsolete (especially the HU content).
This is sorta a 2 part answer...
1. The coaching involves a lot more than the book. If this was just me repackaging what I wrote then, it wouldn't be worth the money nor would it be billed as "group coaching". If that also is the extent of which you view my poker abilities (or teaching abilities) then I suppose I should take that as a pretty large insult.

2. There was no strictly-HU content in the book, so either you're misremembering something that someone else wrote or you misinterpreted something I wrote. There was one small piece (literally an attachment) that showed why playing 100% IP HU is fundamentally correct. (And some raw preflop HU stuff)

Quote:
This isn't a flame towards you or anything,
Well, it is what it is.

Quote:
i just think that a lot of the games now are very difficult and way more technical, even at the 50nl-200nl levels, where without constant playing and review with use of hem/stove/stoxev you are going to fall way behind
If there's one thing you should have taken away from the coaching, it was my constant nagging to self-analyze one's play. Consistently checking up on not just your specific line, but also the hypothetical line with various parts of your range. And alternative responses to your opponents play. I am big on Hem + stove. Less so with stoxev but that doesn't mean I'm unfamiliar with it completely!

Quote:
For me personally, I was probably one of the bigger winners at midstakes 6max and hu playing a decent volume every month for the past 2 years, and after taking a 2 month break from online poker to grind WSOP, i sort of find myself a bit rusty and clueless in seemingly standard spots just from a small break from the games.
I think every time I play poker after a break I've blogged about how I'm rusty. It's natural. That said it comes back quickly.

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Comments
08-15-2011
StnBuddha is offline StnBuddha
If you would be willing to take a small stakes player I'd like to be considered.
08-15-2011
SQUi5HiiFiSH is offline SQUi5HiiFiSH
interested
08-15-2011
ultrasPNT is offline ultrasPNT
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@SQUi5HiiFiSH how the hell do you need coaching with a 3.75BBs winrate and 400K+ profits?
08-15-2011
pittsen is offline pittsen
would also be really interested if a group is avaiable for smallstakes (100NL) player
08-15-2011
DRUK88 is offline DRUK88
Depending on price and timeline, I may be interested.
08-15-2011
robbyd86 is online now robbyd86
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if the price is right, i will come on down!!!!
08-15-2011
LMFAOhaha is offline LMFAOhaha
^^ agree
08-15-2011
BobboFitos is offline BobboFitos
Buddha/pittsen - Absolutely would be willing to take a small stakes player!
Druk/Robby/LMFAO - I hear you... The question is what is the right price?

I'm obviously dropping prices from previous groups due to difficulty of money transfer, having an abundance of time, and the supply/demand curve has been battered a bit by legislation. The price was reasonable in the sense it was good value for all those who have done the group before, but I would like to think it will be even more reasonable now

It depends on #s, but in the past I've personalized 2 sessions per person for the entire group (each has had 6 people), and each individual session is slatted for 2 hours (but they all seem to run over! I just can't stop talking!) which means a course is about 24 hours of coaching. If a group was 1500/person, works out to roughly 60/hour, while at the same time outperforming my 1hr rate. (So I'm happy with that)

That's roughly what I had in mind.
08-15-2011
robbyd86 is online now robbyd86
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I won't get out to Thailand for another 6 weeks anyways. Then I'll probably be grinding 50nl which i don't think I'll need much coaching for until I can grind to 100 or 200nl then I will see i guess. Depends how much money i have, and how much i'm struggling. I probably shouldn't of acted like i was interested before (just couldn't resist a bob barker reference)...but i am interested, just not for a lil ways down the road.
08-15-2011
klink- is offline klink-
no offense, but i'm curious how much online poker you have played in the past 2 years, and what makes you think you can still effectively evaluate the state of the games? I did your group coaching a while ago when i just started playing mid stakes 6max before I started playing any HU and I thought the coaching sessions were a decent form of group discussion and interaction, however the content wasn't necessarily up to par or worth the price. I also recently read though some of the content in your book you put out ages ago, and I honestly do think the game has evolved to a point that makes a lot of that content that may have been very good 3 years ago pretty obsolete (especially the HU content).

This isn't a flame towards you or anything, i just think that a lot of the games now are very difficult and way more technical, even at the 50nl-200nl levels, where without constant playing and review with use of hem/stove/stoxev you are going to fall way behind. For me personally, I was probably one of the bigger winners at midstakes 6max and hu playing a decent volume every month for the past 2 years, and after taking a 2 month break from online poker to grind WSOP, i sort of find myself a bit rusty and clueless in seemingly standard spots just from a small break from the games.
08-15-2011
Gorgi24 is offline Gorgi24
I'm also interested.
08-15-2011
BobboFitos is offline BobboFitos
Klink, answered your questions in the blog. (Edited it in)
08-15-2011
aejones is offline aejones
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fwiw something i will say: while i've always thought that rob's play was fundamentally/theoretically/logically/etc. sound, its not a secret i thought quite a bit of it was pretty spewy. i think the games in the last 3 years have made a lot of standards/wider value ranges much more "standard." i think probably in a vacuum his book and the concepts within it are more applicable to 2011 than 2009. can't speak of 2006, when no one could play poker and chew gum at the same time.

also, i'm trying to be as objective as possible in this post because rob is a friend. you can't teach someone how to teach, and rob likes to hear himself talk. he misses no details and i think his ability and familiarity with teaching probably make this group coaching more valuable than quite a few people who could beat midstakes for a bigger bb/100.
08-15-2011
robbyd86 is online now robbyd86
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Phil Jackson hasn't played basketball in 40 yrs or something, but he was still around the game studying and did ok as a coach imo.

maybe not a great analogy, but just saying
08-15-2011
fnc7 is offline fnc7
Interested
08-15-2011
Dogg11 is offline Dogg11
Having watched Rob's videos over the past 2/3 years I would say that Rob has an interesting and different perspective on a lot of common situations which is exactly what you want in a coach. You don't want someone who thinks of every situation in the usual/standard way but explores different ideas/concepts and lines. Poker coaching is about opening up your mind to different ideas and theories rather than saying specifically, "take this line and 3bet this hand". Just my 2 cents from a 7 year veteran
08-16-2011
lostinthesaus is offline lostinthesaus
Quote:
you're misremembering something
Quoting Roger Clemens won't get you students! But I will say that Rob has gone above and beyond for some guys that I know that have gotten coaching from him as well. Meaning, once the coaching session is over, he's always approachable for more specific help through HHs, theory questions etc.
08-16-2011
BobboFitos is offline BobboFitos
thanks Aaron/Robby/Dogg/Jeff - I appreciate that!

Quote:
Phil Jackson hasn't played basketball in 40 yrs or something, but he was still around the game studying and did ok as a coach imo.

maybe not a great analogy, but just saying
lol... Thanks! Anytime you get compared to P-Jax that's pretty swell.

Jeff - that's a Clemen's quote!?

I will be sending PMs out later today, I've spoken with several people on skype already, there absolutely will be one group, just a matter if there's enough interest to split and have 2.
08-17-2011
lostinthesaus is offline lostinthesaus
08-17-2011
BobboFitos is offline BobboFitos
Note that I sent out a PM with more information to everyone. If you are interested and have not messaged me, please do so. I can forward you the additional information etc.
08-18-2011
FabledHero is offline FabledHero
I admire your honesty about having a losing year, obviously the sample was so small it isn't very indicative of your true win rate. I'm sure you're a very good coach.

Im curious about one thing, how have you only played like 2 hours a month or so online in the last year? What have you been spending most of your time on?
08-18-2011
BobboFitos is offline BobboFitos
FH, I'd like to think I'm a very good coach too! I don't think the sample is indicative of my true win rate, nor do I think a person's true win rate is a great indicator of coaching ability, but those are topics for another day. Obviously I'm not happy about my losing year (both online and live, I should mention) given that's never happened before, but it is what it is.

As far as the lack of play: It actually was more than 2 hours a month ( :P ) but it was roughly 1 elongated session a month. The reason is I spend an inordinate amount of time watching basketball, writing about basketball, playing basketball to an extent, and doing things other than poker. Without changing topics too much, or going into a soliloquy, I've always felt that the reason I play poker is to have time to do whatever it is I really want to do. Every session I actually played last year I woke up thinking "wow, I really want to play poker". That's a positive thing. It made me happy. Most days I did not want to play poker, so I did not. I (had!) made enough money to pay my mortgage and bills, so the daily topic was not so much what's the difference between X and X+Y, but rather given I have X, what will maximize H? (H being the variable happiness) So living has become more a choice of how I want to actually spend my time.

In retrospect - and I've said the same thing after Party shut their doors to Americans, so perhaps this is simply history repeating itself - that may not have been the wisest decision, both because I have a lot of money stuck on FTP AND I don't simply have the option of logging online and pounding out hands in the event I need to do so. So, the equation above has to be amended to incorporate actually paying my bills and so on

All this said, I'm still quite confident in my own abilities, both as a coach and as a player. I recognize other people are incredibly good and gifted, and kudos to them, but I can still hold my own against anyone.
08-18-2011
robbyd86 is online now robbyd86
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any plans to move and continue playing poker?
08-18-2011
BobboFitos is offline BobboFitos
Robby, considering I just bought a house ~10 months ago, the answer is no. I figure I'll wait a bit (a year?) to figure out the landscape and future of poker. I don't need to make any immediate decision, but at the same time, it would be nice to come to some sort of resolution!
08-19-2011
FabledHero is offline FabledHero
"nor do I think a person's true win rate is a great indicator of coaching ability, but those are topics for another day." Yeah the opposite is also true, there are great players who are mediocre coaches.
08-19-2011
FabledHero is offline FabledHero
And also players who are really good teachers who don't execute as well for whatever reason at the tables.
08-19-2011
FabledHero is offline FabledHero
Basically exactly what you just said I repeated lol, didn't fully read your sentence I guess.
08-19-2011
ultrasPNT is offline ultrasPNT
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Quote:
As far as the lack of play: It actually was more than 2 hours a month ( :P ) but it was roughly 1 elongated session a month.
I played just under 16,000 hands
I'm guessing your work ethic as a coach is better than your work ethic as a player.
Question : let's say you'd coach someone like SQUi5HiiFiSH, a 3.75BB winner at stakes up to 5/10 on a huge sample, would you stake him at nose bleeds after that and why?
 
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