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Eagles

Nov
26
2009
Understanding Table Dynamics Part 2
Posted in Poker | View Comments (11)
 

My last blog I gave some vague description of table dynamics but now I will use a few example to illustrate it. A simple way of explaining table dynamics is if you understand them you will know when to be on the right level.

I had a hand in my session today where I opened the CO with KK an aggro reg 3bet me on the button and I called the flop was KJ7ss I checked and he bet I considered raising but i figured that it would look very strong, and if I check call my hand looks like a pair and a flush draw. Given this he will bet more on good cards for me than bad cards so I called.The turn was a king giving me quads, I check called again, this is pretty standard he shoves a full house on 100% of rivers and he has a lot of bluffs, some which will backdoor into value shoves for example AsQd. The only hands I lose value from by calling are flopped flushes when a J or 7 or spade hits the river. The river is a blank i check and he checks behind with 24cc. His line here is pretty awful I love playing pots in position but with no outs and no equity its not a good spot.

The next orbit I open the button with AA and he 3bets the small blind. My standard play in position is to flat, I can reasonably flat a lot of hands in position and he can 3bet a wide range most of which don't want to get stacks in preflop. However in this spot I opted to 4bet, the reason for this is he knows he just showed down 24s 3betting. His thought process will likely be "I just showed down 4 high, he knows I'm 3betting wide and trying to exploit it." This is a particularly great spot to 4bet because the villain in this spot typically will get too ego-oriented. Instead of thinking rationally about my range of hands his thought process will simply be "I have shown an exploitable tendency, the villain will try to exploit me so I must play back."

While he should be considering my range, whether or not I'm balanced how often I flat 3bets and a multitude of options all he can think of is whether or not he will get owned. Villain shoved in this hand for a 130 bbs fairly fast and had KQo. Obviously there is a chance that he just spewed off here but I think there is a fairly good chance if I had 4bet him an orbit earlier he would have folded.

I will illustrate another example this from a live tournament. Let's use two examples you get moved to a new table in a live tournament. Average stack is abut 40k at 500/1k/100

Your third hand at the table you open the HJ with 99 and a 40k stack to 2.5k the button a young player with about 100k chips quickly makes it 7500. What is your play? Obviously it is close and we wish we had more information but I would often end up going all in in this spot. Especially if you like me are young looking and will be assumed to be aggressive regardless how you have been playing.

Now let us consider another scenario you have been at the table for 30 mins and have opened a few pots none have gone to showdown. You open with 99 with 40k to 2.5kthe HJ and a young player with 100k 3bet makes it 7500 on the button. In this case the young player has been fairly active, but has not yet shown down a hand. He has yet to 3bet and has instamucked his hand to many late position options. What do you do?

The second hand is a much more difficult spot. Let's think about what we know in each scenario

In the first example
Villain has a lot of chips
He is young
The first hand you have played he has shown aggression.
He re-raised his first hand in position. The only other hands he folded to raises in the worst positions at the table.
He can have a wide range because you are assumed to be folding or shoving most of your range.
What is the probability this player is bluffing?

Think about the second example
Villain has a lot of chips
He is young
He has had many opportunities to show aggression but has not.
He has insta-mucked many hands indicating his range is significantly narrower.
He has had many opportunities to re raise preflop and has yet to do it.
What is the probability this player is bluffing?

You don't need to give exact answers to these questions, that is not the point. The point is in this scenario most players will (correctly) shove 99. The second scenario is much tougher and against some people its a easy fold, against others its a shove. The point however is to notice how their different images create such different responses from opponents. Which is why its so imporant to be aware of your own image. If you are the BTN in the first hand with QJo its mathematically a +ev spot to 3bet but in doing so you ruin your image for nearly the whole table, it is not worth it, your first impression is so important and now you have ruined it. But by simply being patient and waiting for your spots you get much more credit.

In EPT Villamoura, I 3bet 3/4 times on day 1, everytime I was light and everytime I got snapfolds, I did get lucky to run into the bottom of their ranges but simply by creating an image where my range was considered to be strong I gained a lot of EV.

I don't mean to post these hands as brags(I lost the KQ pot and didn't cash in Villamoura) but rather I'm pointing out that if you really focus on your image and try and get inside the head of your opponents you can pick up a lot. It may seem like a difficult task, but poker players are not robots, they are humans with tendencies and emotions who will make mistakes. Simply take a deep breath, slow down, focus and try and get inside your opponents head and good things will happen. Timing tells, live reads, bet sizing all can give you a lot of information but its not cryptic. I don't think someone who bets small is weak always but sometimes I do. Just ask yourself questions. What does my hand look like to him? Why would he bet small? What is he trying to accomplish? As long as you remember to be aware of these little things you will pick up a lot more information and your game will improve.

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Comments
11-27-2009
Isura is offline Isura
I find that table dynamics and metagame is something I can exploit in my opponents thinking. If I'm pretty well balanced, I don't need to know how they are fucking up. Just know the fact that their sub-optimal (GTO) plays make me money. For example, people don't maintain optimal levels of aggression (ie proper bluffing frequency, valuebetting ranges) in a HU match because they are worrying about the past history instead of thinking about how to play best against my actual range.

My line of thinking can be misunderstood as attempting to play GTO for the sake of it, but that's not what I mean. Sometimes I don't know how to exploit their fuck ups, so I play as balanced as possible. Other times I know how they think I exploit that.
Most people would be better players IMO if they worried MORE about balance, not less.
11-27-2009
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
good read, it seems like the synopsis of this is that table dynamics are focused around recent history/image/and information on your opponent, balled into flow and dynamic

is this accurate? good read man thanks for posting
11-27-2009
Eagles is offline Eagles
IcarusJam good synopsis.

Isura,
Balance and knowing your opponent's tendencies will make you a lot of money. However table dynamics and balance are not mutually exclusive. If you only focus on balance you will miss spots where villain basically turns his hand face up. If villain calls down with any pair than you don't need to be balanced, you should just value bet very wide. If you rely too much on your instincts and gameflow you'll end up making silly call downs with high cards/bottom pair or making crazy folds. Focusing too much on balance, especially against players who are not sophisticated enough to notice if you are balanced will be leaving money on the table. In my experience good players have a strong understanding of one or the other. Great players have a strong understanding of both.
11-27-2009
Isura is offline Isura
I agree with everything except the last sentence. There are many good exploitive players, and great players understand both. But I don't consider someone who understands balance but not exploitive play a good player. Logically it is impossible this to be true.
11-27-2009
Eagles is offline Eagles
Ya you're right. I worded it badly.
11-27-2009
tedjam is offline tedjam
are you saying that in a tourny a tight image is better? so that you can steal easier or just an example on image, because I thought an optimal image in tournys should be fluid depending on stacks, position, blinds and other players
11-27-2009
Eagles is offline Eagles
Tedjam,
Obviously you are right. My feelings on tournaments is you want an image where people will want to avoid playing pots with you. This does not necessarily mean tight, but having a crazy lag image is awful. Given the high variance of tournaments and shortness of stacks, you want to avoid big confrontations because there is a lot of value in simply surviving. You can get payouts in tournaments far greater than the ev of your stack so its important to keep your stack alive, maintain fold equity and when you get allin either have the best of it or lots of fold equity. Taking marginal high variance spots especially in soft tournaments is typically disastrous.
11-27-2009
Isura is offline Isura
There is no value intrinsic in surviving in a tournament imo. That is a fallacy that many players hold onto because additional chips marginally decrease in value. However a lot of tournament players think that way. That's why a big stack is so valuable. You can lag it up, and force people to fold in those marginal spots because they are all trying to survive.
11-27-2009
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
pwn the bubble, win the monies.
11-28-2009
Eagles is offline Eagles
Isura,
You are wrong, I hate to be so blunt but you are. Especially in aggressive tournaments there is a ton of value in simply folding while other players bust increasing your payout. It is often correct to pass up +cev spots. Tournaments are not only about gaining chips, they are a timed event if you are still in after 1000 hands regardless what your stack is you will receive a large payout. If you have a big stack you can lag it up but a lot of that is because shortstacks are correctly folding a lot.
11-28-2009
Isura is offline Isura
I disagree. It's been argued a ton on 2+2, and there's tons of people on my side of the argument.
 
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