Leggo Poker Every Tool You Need To Win

jaymesbond

May
28
2011
**TOURNAMENT LIFE**
Posted in Poker | View Comments (23)
 

Now, I am the not the best tournament player, but I feel like my tournament game is strong and that I understand the flow of an MTT and how I should play in and out of each level, especially when I have a good chip stack. With that said, today I fucked up.

Lately I have been playing a ton of live cash and one thing I have learned is that removing my ego from the table has been a good thing overall. I am putting myself in much better spots against worse players and not trying to prove myself to better players by 3 betting them of trying weird lines and leveling myself... bla bla. Anyhow today I played the 1st of many Venetian Deepstacks that run throughout the first half of the wsop. It's a $340 buyin and had a whopping 1200 players, trust me for this series, that's a ton. First would prolly be 80k or something ridiculous.

I chipped up from the starting 12k stack and had 34k at 150/300/25 when another player with a big stack came and sat two to my right. He was a younger kid, stylish hair, an arrogance about him, and overall just the look of a classic internettish punk. My juices started flowing because I am not one to shy away from coming after a stack like that. Instead of letting him control everything, which it looked like he wanted to do after his first hand, I for some reason felt the need to come after him asap.

His first hand at the table he won from the sb after calling a raise and rivering a straight with 45o. This told me he was a bit on the crazy side and ready to gamble, but not necessarily spewy or anything. The next hand it folds around to him otb and he makes it 700. I already felt like nothing was going to stop me from 3 betting him here to set the tone. I look down at 98o and make it 2200. He has me covered (two big stacks if you didn't read it right). He calls. Flop is 1093r and I c-bet 2.5k. He takes about 10 seconds and shoves. Before I get into anything else I will tell you what happened. I almost beat his chips into the pot snap calling and saying at the same time... you have QJ here 100%. He has QJ. Turn J. I leave.

Now, sure, I had 54% equity and I made a good read and I could have won a ~70k stack at 150/300... but I mean... who cares. As I walk away from the Venetian I realize there was no need to be out of the tournament. There was no need for me to try and prove myself, I know my skill set, I know that patience and solid play would get me much further. I don't even hate the 3bet but there is no reason to call off a shove even if he does have QJo every time. You are leaving your tournament up to a coin flip after you had done well constructing yourself a great stack, and now it's gone because ego got in the way. If I fold I have 30k at 150/300 (100bbs!) and am still in amazing shape to play skilled poker, chip up, cash, then win all the monies...

I am not too disappointed but am glad I can look at this objectively. As the WSOP approaches, think about this guys, think about how you have such a skill edge over most people and that even if one or two players around you know what they are doing, playing solid poker with good reads will get you further than letting your ego get in the way.

Good luck to everyone here in Vegas this year, I feel good coming into the series... do you?

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Comments
05-28-2011
toocrispy is offline toocrispy
in times like this YA GOTTA DIIIIIIG INNNNNNN
05-28-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
That is a massive fking shove
05-28-2011
JEMM3R09 is offline JEMM3R09
stop trying to mature its boring, i take satisfaction in the fact that i know it will never actually happen tho
05-29-2011
Mr Papagiorgio is offline Mr Papagiorgio
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Gus Hanson said the exact same thing in the 5-24 issue of Card player.
05-29-2011
preflopjitters is offline preflopjitters
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more posts like this, imo.
05-29-2011
tedjam is offline tedjam
I think your being to harsh on yourself, folding a pair(effectively top pair) against a draw(albeit one woth a ton of outs) in a tourny is def not the default. You targeted his stack, soul read him got it in at better than a flip with sick odds to boot. fields are getting tougher live so although this is maybe not a snap call i still think based on what you know its a call.just curious where is the line where u think u should call 60%? fd and probable over? oesd?
05-29-2011
klink- is offline klink-
i don't get it, if he has QJ 100% of the time is a call
05-29-2011
bigLEOser is offline bigLEOser
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he's saying he did it for the wrong reasons i think,
05-29-2011
jaymesbond is offline jaymesbond
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i dnt think so klink, if i offered u 99 vs ak first hand of a mtt for your stack at a fairly soft table with a 10k chip stack at 25/50 or something, would you take it? I wouldnt, why leave it up to chance at this point... maybe deeper but not at this point...
05-29-2011
The_End is online now The_End
If you plan to play a large sample of tournaments then I think you should take it. It sucks if you lose, but when you double up, your EV will be more than twice as high.
05-29-2011
JamesMa is offline JamesMa
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yeah just one of those spots where you gotta consider how much having a double up will improve your chances of going deep relative to how you will place by folding in a coinflip spot and preserving a decent size stack
05-29-2011
kingfisher is offline kingfisher
Personally I take the 54% online beacuse its actually possible to play a large enough sample to make it count (assuming youre well rolled for the buyin). Effectivley by making the call your stack increases by roughly 3800 which is ~9% overall (54/100 you win 70K and 46 you're busto). Pushing that edge in a 99 v AK senario first hand of a comp has further continuous implied equity as youll run into other people with 20K relatively quickly and the accumuliated chips from the 54 times you win are doubled when you double up again. In this case (w/70K) though no one will have you covered so the chips gained have less value than the 99/AK senario until the field is able to double you up. but with 70K that wont happen for a long time, possibly as long as it takes you to get to 70K winning small/medium pots?

However playing live I just dont think its worth the risk. sure you are favorite in the long term and 70K on 150/300 is SO MASSIVE that you can use those chips to abuse the hell out the table and accumuilate even more chips/take a few hits playing ridic LAG but;

Its near impossible to get into that situation repeatidly enough to smooth out the variance and as you have to invest so much time into them.

You already have a big stack there arent any more implied increases from your next big pot (once youve won the 89/QJ flip) as the extra chips you make wont get doubled up as no one has you covered.

You already have a good stack in a weak field so you should have ample opportunities to easily run it up with low risk

Again its a WEAK field/table for the time being and you have most of them well covered

In this case you have position on the only other big stack at your table.

If youre good talking to people and extracting information/using it correctly/ effectivly to pick out bluffs and lay hands down then you have a much greater edge than in online mtts and that should more than compensate for the equity you sacrifice by not pushing the flips.
05-30-2011
klink- is offline klink-
"i dnt think so klink, if i offered u 99 vs ak first hand of a mtt for your stack at a fairly soft table with a 10k chip stack at 25/50 or something, would you take it? I wouldnt, why leave it up to chance at this point... maybe deeper but not at this point"

thats completely different. you have more than 50% equity after cbetting in a 3bet pot w/ 100 bb stacks, there is no way that is a fold.
05-30-2011
tedjam is offline tedjam
Quote:
you have more than 50% equity after cbetting in a 3bet pot w/ 100 bb stacks,
^^this
its a flip with a pretty big overlay.
im suprised that most advocate a fold.
05-30-2011
jaymesbond is offline jaymesbond
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to put it simply... there are better spots, why take such a small edge when your table is weak and youll prolly find a bigger one down the road, I would change my answer to this puzzle in later stages of a tournament, but this early? with this many chips? really is it that simple of a call?
05-30-2011
bugsycarrot is offline bugsycarrot
i can see both side of the argument, but I'd have to lean towards agreeing with jaymes more here. health stack, position on this kid, way better spots to attack and pick up chips.
05-30-2011
grogheadflow is online now grogheadflow
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I personally think the flop has to be a call having got there, but I get your point that the mistake in terms of tourny life etc was the initial PF 3bet. I agree.
05-30-2011
tedjam is offline tedjam
one point a 100bb stack becomes pretty shallow quickly,
in terms of hands dealt
as the fields thins out u wont get it in much better
but ur edge here is stealing etc which with ur current
stack is fine for I agree. so to those that fold
if his cards where flicked open u really could fold here?
05-30-2011
jaymesbond is offline jaymesbond
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grog head i disagree completely... restealing here deep i believe is fine, especially since i think im going to win the pot a ton on flops, turns and rivers without risking more than half my stack, obv i was wrong in this specific situation but i dont ever hate 3 betting too much here, as i think he is less likely to play huge pot with another deepstack too often

"in terms of hands dealt
as the fields thins out u wont get it in much better"- also disagree with this... i believe you guys are too stuck in the cash game mindset here. this is a SUPER SOFT tournament with 100bb, there are def more opportunities where u can get your money in better, sometimes maybe not, but there is a very high chance of it

I feel like you guys arent understanding the sick edge you have in these small buyin fields, have you played them? or do you think everyone is a midstakes online cash game grinder
05-30-2011
grogheadflow is online now grogheadflow
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Ok I just misunderstood your point then. I thought it was that we should avoid the high variance preflop stuff VS (as you describe) 'classic internettish punks'. I obviously don't mind the 3bet, just pick on someone else, someone more risk averse......

I'm halfway through a similarish blog post actually, will be up tomorrow
05-30-2011
kingfisher is offline kingfisher
Quote:
i dont ever hate 3 betting too much here, as i think he is less likely to play huge pot with another deepstack too often
But youre a big stack and youve gone after him... Dont think hes ever giving the pot up easily whilst youre OOP
05-31-2011
klink- is offline klink-
you are giving up 240ish dollars worth of chip equity in a 340 dollar tournament by folding vs. calling.
05-31-2011
jaymesbond is offline jaymesbond
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fisher, thats all board dependent, and hard to generalize, being oop isnt always the end of the world, i feel on a lot of board textures im going to be winning this pot a ton on the flop, turn and river like i said before... even if i three barrel and lose i still have a ton of chips bla bla bla... this situation just happened to come up and change everything
 
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