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Feb
06
2011
Marriage
Posted in Poker | View Comments (26)
 

It’s been a while since my last potentially controversial blog post, so today I’m going to cover my thoughts on the topic of marriage.

To be clear I’m not discussing the notion of a monogamous relationship. There are certainly people who will argue that the optimal way to live is to bang as many cocktail waitresses as you can as often as you can till you die (they may or may not have a case), but I’m writing this with the assumption that we’re all cool on the idea of monogamy as a means to a potentially happy existence. It’s just that once you’ve made that choice to start a family and live with the same person forever, marriage is deeply unnecessary. Or rather marriage, outside of religious or legal/tax reasons, should be deeply unnecessary.


There’s not much I can add about the religious reasons. I’m an atheist, and I’ve made my feelings on that subject very clear. Within the context of a lot of other rules that don’t make any sense, marriage to a religious person makes perfect sense. In fact in certain branches of religion you need to get married in order to be ‘allowed’ to have sex, and if you’re never going to question the validity of that rule then clearly it’s the right decision for you.

Legal/tax reasons may well constitute a genuine reason in 2011. I’m not exceptionally well educated on what benefits a couple may get in various countries for simply being married, but if it’s significant at all then the ‘why not?’ school of thought becomes very sensible. A better rate of mortgage, a tax break, social security benefits, a VISA to stay in a foreign country, being allowed to visit your loved one in an emergency situation in hospital: these can all be worth going to the local registry. The main point here is that any legal/tax benefits derived from marriage and not from a mere partnership should certainly not exist. It doesn’t make any sense at all.

And if we can agree that someone getting married purely to obtain legal or tax benefits seems to be missing the 'spirit’ of the concept, then why are we getting married?

To use a poker analogy, marriage is a self-exclusion option on the drop down menu of your favourite site. In poker, you know you don’t want to play for 48 hours, but don’t trust yourself around drugs and alcohol, so you trust ‘today’s you’ over ‘tomorrow’s you’ and make a final decision. In marriage, you know you have met the person you want to be with forever, but don’t trust yourself around annoying conversations and constant unhappiness, so you trust ‘today’s you’ over ’15 years from now’s you’ and make a not very final but likely extremely frustrating decision.

But why would we ever want a self-exclusion option for our relationships? It’s not as if people end 15 year relationships after their first ever argument. You don’t spend 15 years in unerring blissful happiness, then one day your girlfriend invites over that particularly unbearable pair for a couple's night without asking you so you just leave forever then spend the rest of your life regretting it. It’s not even that successful a self-exclusion, if you’ve really changed your mind then you’ll still get a divorce. All it does is makes it a lot tougher for you to break up, and it does this by necessarily extending your period of unhappiness in order to give you more time to change your mind.

Happy marriages don’t end in divorce, just as happy long term relationships don’t end in breaking up. There may be some very rare exceptions where both members of a happy couple are offered their respective dream jobs on different sides of the world and decide that they simply have to end their relationship, but in such a case I don’t see how being married would change a thing. Divorces only occur after an extended period of unhappiness for one or probably both members of a couple. Regardless of how you felt when you got married, if you have both been unhappy for a long time then it’s time to move on.

But what about raising a family? Again, being officially married shouldn’t affect anything. You can still have kids, you can still spend the rest of your life with your dream partner, you can have everything the married couple down the street have. I would even argue that the couple who stay together for 30 years without marriage, due to the lack of obligation to stay together, is statistically more (probably a lot more) likely to be happy than the married couple of the same duration.

And if you’re in an unhappy relationship but feel it’s important to stay together for the sake of your kids, you can still do that as an unmarried couple. It’s just that if the time ever comes where you clearly don’t want to be with each other anymore, the break up (while still painful) will come without the very real and very unnecessary stress of a divorce. If you have children together it will still be an ordeal dealing with custody/child support, but surely less complicated. If you don’t have children, it should be vastly less complicated.

I’ll also add here (slightly off topic) that the banning of gay marriage is vastly more ridiculous than the idea of wanting to get married. I don’t think gay people should get married, for exactly the same reasons as everyone else, but the idea that they aren’t allowed to is unbelievably absurd. Clearly this is entirely down to Judaeo-Christian influences on society, and surely in even the near future we will look back on this law as very silly indeed.


But now we’ll come to the actual reason most non-religious heterosexual men get married: because women want to. Almost every girl wants that dream wedding, to call herself a wife and you her husband, and if you’ve been in a relationship long enough the idea will inevitably come up. The longer you go on ignoring it, the more she’ll want and (in certain cases) expect it. As Adam Carolla says, every time you plan a special trip or a romantic evening, she’ll be searching for that engagement ring. And every time it’s not there, she’ll punish you for a long time afterwards.

So is that really a good enough reason to get married? Purely to get your girlfriend off your back? It probably is. But in a societal sense, we need to advance to the point where this isn’t the dream of every girl. They can still dream of a massive party to celebrate your relationship. Invite everyone you know, buy the best cake in the world, get a cheesy band. Even call it a wedding if you like. Just don’t sign any actual legal documents.

Trust me, and your future selves.

Till next time.

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Comments
02-06-2011
Probability is offline Probability
Probability's Avatar
good read.
02-06-2011
Laser Show is offline Laser Show
Laser Show's Avatar
Marriage is -EV for men and not just slightly. So many reasons, but the crux of it is that most women see it as "the finish line" and most men lose their edge after marriage which kills attraction.

Blue Valentine's a pretty good look at a crumbling marriage. .
02-06-2011
threefouRguy is offline threefouRguy
Religious influences are responsible for a lot of other flaws in our society, marriage is only one. Good post.
02-06-2011
Keilah is offline Keilah
One important thing about marriage is the symbolism and how it will be interpreted by other people. When I meet a couple and they're married, there's a certain impression I have of them. When I meet a couple and they aren't married, I have a different impression.
It's hard to put into words, but inside of me something questions the legitimacy/earnestness of their relationship, on an automatic and unconscious level. You may not like it, but other people are going to have similar feelings and since first impressions are important, it's a worthy consideration.

And while I think about it, the symbolism is important to the people in the marriage too. Maybe the guy thinks marriage is meaningless, but the girl disagrees. Maybe both SAY it's meaningless, but still get gut reactions similar to what I described above.
02-06-2011
Nitewin is offline Nitewin
Updated 02-06-2011 at 09:35 PM by Nitewin
Nitewin's Avatar
Good read but I think I agree with Keilah. Think of a world where marriage never existed and our world as we know it. It wouldn't be the same so marriage must serve some purpose. Everything we know, we created, like what's cool and what's not, or what's valued more. For example gem stones are expensive but all they are is a colorful rock. If we didn't have all these things to shape our world, we'd function similar to animals through instinct. So when it comes to monogamy I don't think it's necessary but for our minds it is.
02-06-2011
JamesMa is offline JamesMa
JamesMa's Avatar
Well the thing about marriage was it used to mean something. Getting married was special cuz u were pretty much stuck with the person and it was super shameful to be divorced and that option didnt always exist. Nowadays with such a high number of marriages ending, being married isnt that much different than being in a serious relationship. There is no shock or disgust from others when told that a marriage is ending, its often merely concern about where possessions will end up going.

Marriage is definitely another step towards commitment but mostly due to the fact that there are legal documents to get separated. Maybe the whole ring thing is the biggest change to try to ward off potential suitors or seductresses but there is an online site for ppl to commit adultery so not sure how much of a deterrent wearing a ring will bring.
02-06-2011
tedjam is offline tedjam
gay marriages would suck and be a pain in the ass.... but probably only for the participants
02-06-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
Marriage has been tainted by the media and the divorce rates skyrocketing because people don't realize what marriage really is anymore
02-07-2011
BareBase is offline BareBase
If you were the person who made the blog post about Richard Dawkins, then it may surprise you to hear me say that, although I only skimmed so far I agree with large parts of this post.

For some people, marriage aims to set up a stable foundation to start a relationship. The idea of making such a commitment sets the couple off on the right track as it were.

Unfortunately, particularly nowadays, the emphasis off marriage has become more and more about the celebrations of the day, rather than what the marriage is meant to symbolise. I got married nearly 2 months ago and I was somewhat frustrated several times by the pomp and the associated expense of what was to be our wedding day. It is somewhat common amongst religious Jewish circles that the 'to be' husband and wife attend lessons/sessions with people (often a husband and wife) to give some pointers, issues to look out for, ways to deal with arguments, suggestions to help ensure you get sufficient 'quality time' etc. The person I went to commented on how he often asks the man 'how long have you been preparing for the wedding day?' By the time the menu, venue, band, invitations, suit fitting, etc. etc. is considered, you get answers of 50 hours, 60 hours or more. He then asks 'how long have you been preparing for being married?' i.e. how long have you spent working on your patience and understanding of the person, how long have you spent looking at your own attributes that may cause contention when you are going to be living in such close quarters with another person. The normal response is a blank face. The summary and lesson then given is that the person is spending (e.g) 75 hours for a day that lasts maybe 12 hours but have put no time into preparing for the subsequent 60+ years that you will be with your spouse.
02-07-2011
BareBase is offline BareBase
Now, the point that you validly make is that to make a relationship, whether through marriage or not, work is a matter of mindset and compromise and therefore, to make the relationship work, marriage is not necessary. You are right.

The problem for relationships in current society is that we are provided everything with no effort and provided almost unlimited options for consumption. Unfortunately, this has made us lazy and short-termist as people and the result of this is that a couple, whether married or partners, often don't know HOW to sort out the relationship when a big argument occurs or something about the partner bothers them. As just consuming a different model is now a growing part of our psyche, it seems to me that this is why more and more marriages are ending in divorce and more long-term couples split up.
02-07-2011
ShovingStation is offline ShovingStation
Each to their own.

The fact that marriage exists as a way for people that feel so in inclined to formalize their relationship is totally cool.

If two people can just as happily co-exist in a romantic relationship without the formality of marriage... also totally cool.

For many people a big part of life is the dream of getting married, buying a family home and having 2 and a half kids. Good for them. For others that can enjoy the same situation de-facto, good for them too.
02-07-2011
ultrasPNT is offline ultrasPNT
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Why is this entry so serious, what happened to your sense of humor? I think you have to redo this blog entry using one of your animations, I can supply the angry voice of the girl's father, something like: "Next time you put your hands on my girl you won't see my face... if you want to hit her give her your last name, then it's not my problem...now get out of my face ! "
02-07-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
his girlfriend is probably giving him shit for not proposing imo
02-07-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Quote:
Why is this entry so serious, what happened to your sense of humor?
Quote:
his girlfriend is probably giving him shit for not proposing imo
Ha no, I just like mixing it up. And no one likes a comedian.
02-07-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Quote:
One important thing about marriage is the symbolism and how it will be interpreted by other people. When I meet a couple and they're married, there's a certain impression I have of them. When I meet a couple and they aren't married, I have a different impression.
Yeah I can definitely see your point. But I guess I would ask what is the logic in such a feeling? And much like the legal/tax benefits, should such a cultural bias still exist/ exist in the future?
02-07-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
everyone likes a comedian, most ppl hate philosophers because they make people think
02-07-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
Marriage is more than a symbol, it's a sacrament of the unity of souls
02-08-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Quote:
Marriage is more than a symbol, it's a sacrament of the unity of souls
Yeah as I say I think we'd have to go far deeper to resolve our disagreement (which I'm perfectly happy to, but most people hate it), dealing with the existence of the soul and a human-centric view of the universe.
02-08-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
Yeah we're def going to be peeling through multiple philosophical layers that we will probably have opposing views on haha
02-08-2011
jadedvision is offline jadedvision
Yes, I believe there is logic in feeling that two people who want to spend the rest of their lives together desire to place added value on that lifelong commitment. This need exists entirely separate from any religious or societal pressure for many people (my gay cousin who for instance). If a person agrees that spending their lives with someone is the biggest commitment they could make, there is logic in wanting that commitment designated with higher distinction over casual couples or cohabitants with no long-term commitment, or whatever other temporary forms of monogamy are out there. I feel the whole ceremony and hype about the actual getting married is overdone, but no matter what we feel, there will always be a publicly owned word for when two people commit to each other for the rest of their lives.

Aside from logic, we can say most of our needs for self-actualization aren't grounded in logic right down to the fact that I don't really logically need a birthday present, but I want it nonetheless. Most of life is comprised of more than just what is practical and necessary. Of course two people don't need to get married to have a happy lifelong relationship. But You can't strip the label away based on that alone (although I agree it would be nice to strip a lot of the crap that surrounds that label).
02-08-2011
papabigballer is offline papabigballer
papabigballer's Avatar
My roomate is recently engaged. Pretty sure his "fiance" doesn't give two shits about being married, but simply wants a wedding. All we've heard about is the wedding itself and how its "her" wedding and not his because she's paying for it (aka daddy's paying for it)....ofcourse this was an opportune time to place bets on the over/under of 2.5 years of marriage...I took the under
02-09-2011
preflopjitters is offline preflopjitters
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Kind of hard to read about marriage from someone who is not married and has no desire to be married. I kind of skimmed it, and got to the last part where you generalize that everyone is getting married basically to get their girlfriend off their back, and just kind of rolled my eyes.

You are definitely free to live your life how you want, and I won't criticize you for it. But this whole blog post seems like an all too tidy (and short) response to an important part of vastly different societies and cultures around the world that has existed for centuries. I am too tired right now to refute it point by point, but I don't think there is much point in doing so.

Maybe sometimes you have to be in the middle of it to really get it.
02-09-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Quote:
I kind of skimmed it, and got to the last part where you generalize that everyone is getting married basically to get their girlfriend off their back, and just kind of rolled my eyes.
Well that specific part had more of a comic feel to it, and in the context of the whole piece would surely have been less eye-roll worthy. I'd only ask you to read something before criticizing it.
02-11-2011
Keilah is offline Keilah
"Yeah I can definitely see your point. But I guess I would ask what is the logic in such a feeling? And much like the legal/tax benefits, should such a cultural bias still exist/ exist in the future?"

not sure how to do a proper quote =p

First off, I'd say that the logic of it lies in the purpose of marriage as I see it - to put (social) pressure on couples to remain monogamous long-term. It's tough to say but I'm guessing monogamy works well in big societies - less angry males who get no mate, less poor women/children who mated with a pimp guy (who can't financially support all the women who he impregnated), and an extra dash of stability all around. And I'd say that social pressure is still around, but not as powerful as in the past.

Second - logical or not, the world is what it is and sometimes it's better to accept something illogical and try to make the most of it. In my life, there were many things that I first thought were totally illogical and stupid, but as I got older and gained new perspectives, I began to see how they were absolutely logical and much wiser than I had believed.

Now if you have discussions with people, think about it a lot, and come to a consensus that something ought to be changed, and if you wanna start the revolution, be my guest. But I don't think the time has come for the anti-marriage revolution.
02-11-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Yeah I'm certainly not passionately against it enough to start anything resembling an anti-marriage revolution. My greater concern is with irrationality itself, and that manifests itself in ways that are extremely damaging and that I am extremely passionate about (ie. the battle against evolution being taught in American schools).
02-26-2011
jpizzy is offline jpizzy
good read nice post and i generally agree with your outlook.
 
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