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Mar
18
2011
Should This Be the Last Generation?
Posted in Poker | View Comments (13)
 

My friends and I have recently been discussing the notion of antinatalism, the philosophical position declaring childbirth as fundamentally unethical.

The key discussion lies with the unarguable fact that to bring a child into the world is to guarantee that child at least some suffering (potentially a lot), and the supposed asymmetry that exists within the comparison of potential happiness and non existence versus potential suffering and non existence.

I personally took the position that the probability of suffering was an important consideration (as opposed to declaring that if a child is to suffer even the smallest amount it renders that decision unethical), and ultimately argued that it can be ethical to have your own child. But it certainly wasn't a straight forward decision, and I think the idea is a really interesting one to consider.

This is a good article discussing these ideas from Peter Singer, the professor of Bioethics at Princeton.

Quote:
Have you ever thought about whether to have a child? If so, what factors entered into your decision? Was it whether having children would be good for you, your partner and others close to the possible child, such as children you may already have, or perhaps your parents? For most people contemplating reproduction, those are the dominant questions. Some may also think about the desirability of adding to the strain that the nearly seven billion people already here are putting on our planet’s environment. But very few ask whether coming into existence is a good thing for the child itself. Most of those who consider that question probably do so because they have some reason to fear that the child’s life would be especially difficult — for example, if they have a family history of a devastating illness, physical or mental, that cannot yet be detected prenatally.

All this suggests that we think it is wrong to bring into the world a child whose prospects for a happy, healthy life are poor, but we don’t usually think the fact that a child is likely to have a happy, healthy life is a reason for bringing the child into existence. This has come to be known among philosophers as “the asymmetry” and it is not easy to justify. But rather than go into the explanations usually proffered — and why they fail — I want to raise a related problem. How good does life have to be, to make it reasonable to bring a child into the world? Is the standard of life experienced by most people in developed nations today good enough to make this decision unproblematic, in the absence of specific knowledge that the child will have a severe genetic disease or other problem?

If there were to be no future generations, there would be nothing for us to feel to guilty about. Is there anything wrong with this scenario?

The 19th-century German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer held that even the best life possible for humans is one in which we strive for ends that, once achieved, bring only fleeting satisfaction. New desires then lead us on to further futile struggle and the cycle repeats itself.

Schopenhauer’s pessimism has had few defenders over the past two centuries, but one has recently emerged, in the South African philosopher David Benatar, author of a fine book with an arresting title: “Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence.” One of Benatar’s arguments trades on something like the asymmetry noted earlier. To bring into existence someone who will suffer is, Benatar argues, to harm that person, but to bring into existence someone who will have a good life is not to benefit him or her. Few of us would think it right to inflict severe suffering on an innocent child, even if that were the only way in which we could bring many other children into the world. Yet everyone will suffer to some extent, and if our species continues to reproduce, we can be sure that some future children will suffer severely. Hence continued reproduction will harm some children severely, and benefit none.

Benatar also argues that human lives are, in general, much less good than we think they are. We spend most of our lives with unfulfilled desires, and the occasional satisfactions that are all most of us can achieve are insufficient to outweigh these prolonged negative states. If we think that this is a tolerable state of affairs it is because we are, in Benatar’s view, victims of the illusion of pollyannaism. This illusion may have evolved because it helped our ancestors survive, but it is an illusion nonetheless. If we could see our lives objectively, we would see that they are not something we should inflict on anyone.

Here is a thought experiment to test our attitudes to this view. Most thoughtful people are extremely concerned about climate change. Some stop eating meat, or flying abroad on vacation, in order to reduce their carbon footprint. But the people who will be most severely harmed by climate change have not yet been conceived. If there were to be no future generations, there would be much less for us to feel to guilty about.

So why don’t we make ourselves the last generation on earth? If we would all agree to have ourselves sterilized then no sacrifices would be required — we could party our way into extinction!

Of course, it would be impossible to get agreement on universal sterilization, but just imagine that we could. Then is there anything wrong with this scenario? Even if we take a less pessimistic view of human existence than Benatar, we could still defend it, because it makes us better off — for one thing, we can get rid of all that guilt about what we are doing to future generations — and it doesn’t make anyone worse off, because there won’t be anyone else to be worse off.

Is a world with people in it better than one without? Put aside what we do to other species — that’s a different issue. Let’s assume that the choice is between a world like ours and one with no sentient beings in it at all. And assume, too — here we have to get fictitious, as philosophers often do — that if we choose to bring about the world with no sentient beings at all, everyone will agree to do that. No one’s rights will be violated — at least, not the rights of any existing people. Can non-existent people have a right to come into existence?

I do think it would be wrong to choose the non-sentient universe. In my judgment, for most people, life is worth living. Even if that is not yet the case, I am enough of an optimist to believe that, should humans survive for another century or two, we will learn from our past mistakes and bring about a world in which there is far less suffering than there is now. But justifying that choice forces us to reconsider the deep issues with which I began. Is life worth living? Are the interests of a future child a reason for bringing that child into existence? And is the continuance of our species justifiable in the face of our knowledge that it will certainly bring suffering to innocent future human beings?
Should this be the last generation? And can a decision to bring a child into the world be a rational and ethical one?

Till next time.

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Comments
03-19-2011
Robin_Ripper is offline Robin_Ripper
You should watch: The Sunset Limited.

I believe that I will bring one or more children into this world and will teach them to enjoy life and I do not worry in the least about their future suffering, if you start worrying about stuff like that you can worry about so much more that has only a negative impact in your life! Just enjoy what you can and if you reach a point where you don't think you can enjoy anything anymore you can always end it.
03-19-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
I think if you want a legit philosophical debate you need to use the forums and not your blog because it always gets way to sloppy, pm if u want legit response
03-19-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Quote:
You should watch: The Sunset Limited.
I'm on it, looks interesting.

Quote:
Just enjoy what you can and if you reach a point where you don't think you can enjoy anything anymore you can always end it.
Yeah I agree. But those on the opposing side would argue that, because killing yourself will likely result in the suffering of others, the ethical decision (once alive) would be to unselfishly deal with life even though you would rather have never existed.
03-19-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Quote:
I think if you want a legit philosophical debate you need to use the forums and not your blog because it always gets way to sloppy, pm if u want legit response
Do you just mean the forums are stylistically better for a lengthy conversation? But yeah I'd be happy to hear your response through PM if you'd rather not post it here.
03-19-2011
The_End is online now The_End
If I had to choose between never having existed and living the life I had I would snapchoose life. And I think this goes for almost anyone. I have suffered, less than some, more than others, but I still chose life.

And I'm pretty sure my child would love life too. So yes I think it's perfectly ethical for most human beings to have children.
03-19-2011
IcarusJam is offline IcarusJam
Yeah i'll get on it fo sho, i know we have almost perpendicular views on a lot of stuff but it's always fun to philosophizeeeee :P
03-20-2011
Mr Papagiorgio is offline Mr Papagiorgio
Mr Papagiorgio's Avatar
I find it flawed to think that suffering is not part of the equation that makes up the definition of life. If you take out the suffering then you are in essence creating an all new form of existence, and trying to then reuse an existing word as what you want to call your new equation. From an evolutionary consideration it’s the suffering and the ability to react to it that furthers the development of the species, and is what created our existence in the first place. ….. So I would argue that a non-suffering being on this planet would have to be classified as a different species altogether. Because we are not of that species we can not just randomly decide to wish it to be so and deny what we are. It’s like you are saying the T-Rex could have became a Polar Bear by choosing not to reproduce.
03-20-2011
threefouRguy is offline threefouRguy
Well, it's not just about whether "your" child will suffer, but if any will? Like if I said, you having a child that doesn't suffer causes a child elsewhere to suffer, would your answer change? Because in a very broad sense, until there is no suffering, this statement is true.

Also, the blog is fine, I have never, and more than likely, will never read the forums here, but I follow K_mans blog...
03-21-2011
bubsodian is offline bubsodian
bubsodian's Avatar
What do u mean by 'suffering'? is it like psychological suffering as in if i lost 50$ from my wallet (u dont suffer physically just mentally) or is it like i get punched in the face and feel pain, in a sport u may feel same pain as getting punched in face but not have the same psychological effect like u might not notice it at all during sport so it causes no suffering. In both cases do u suffer? Extending this argument imagine a society in which after childbirth the parents are removed completely from the childs life but the birth of the child gives the parents some positive utility. Lets say the child is shot after birth and the parents have no knowledge of this. The child has no psychological suffering as it cant think or realize what happened similarly the notion of being shot at birth is considered suffering because it is in our society/culture however the baby has none of these notions so it hasn't suffered. Anyway my point is that the argument of because a person suffers in their life is not an argument for non-existence because suffering is subjective and man created as in it is an illusion of the mind. The only way to judge if a birth of an unborn child should take place is if u were god and had the knowledge which humans dont to judge what is right or wrong. (btw i know ur an aethiest i meant that humans dont have capability to make ethical decisions because ethics is undefined)
03-21-2011
ALF36 is offline ALF36
looooooool
03-21-2011
BareBase is offline BareBase
I look forward to reading this in detail when I get home from work but from my preconceptions and based on the opening lines, there are many many problems with this 'ethical issue'. For example, the unborn child doesn't exist yet. Therefore, regardless of what the world may be able to provide that will impact on the child's happiness, you can't even begin to quantify this as you don't know how the child will respond to the situations that YOU deem to bring positive or negative happiness so how are you going to decide that on balance, the child will have aggregated unhappiness.

Furthermore, how can you tell that the child will be unhappy as it is based on how future events impact both you as parents, the world and the child itself? This makes the quantification of happiness even more blurred as your assumptions about events 5 years in the future may be (and probably will be) vastly wrong.

I agree that in certain cases, you could make the argument that a child will be unhappy and in those particular instances, it is probably not right for the child to be born. However, to suggest that it should be a widespread position that it is unethical to have children seems like a bizarre position to hold.
03-21-2011
reverie is offline reverie
maybe we could just cut down on having kids. they can be our guilty pleasure akin to a vegan sneaking a bacon butty down his gullet in a weaker moment. there has already been a clear cultural shift in western societies attitudes towards family and children with some countries slipping into negative birthrates. i don't think that's a bad thing at all considering the huge pressure on resources projected for the next 20+ years. i don't think you need the argument "all life is net suffering" to support this.
03-25-2011
K_Man is offline K_Man
Quote:
You should watch: The Sunset Limited.
Just watched this and really enjoyed it. Thanks for the recommendation.
 
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