Leggo Poker Every Tool You Need To Win

MYNAMEIZGREG

Don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever.

Nov
22
2009
Let's Get it Started
Posted in Poker | View Comments (28)
 

My inspiration for making this series was based off my own experience. I went off learning PLO, dabbling in 7/8-game, and playing NLHE tournaments, both live and online. When I went back to HU NLHE, or 6m NLHE online, I destroyed everything in sight. I was making all these sick plays, and just embarrassing regulars at 5/10 and 10/20. I realized that the reasons I was able to do this were:

1) My mind had been expanded from playing other games. When you learn a new game, you aren't restricted to 'rules' the way that you are after playing a game for hours and hours every day. You just do what feels right (twss). Interestingly enough, you emulate your mindset after a great session in your staple game. "Wow, I played really well. I was going with all my reads and just owning people!" Sound familiar? Well, when you play different, less familiar games, you're not necessarily owning everyone, but you're still going with all your reads, and never playing on autopilot (your lack of knowledge forces you to sit there and try to absorb every piece of information you can).

2) I was playing less. I was fresher when I played, I was more enthusiastic, and I cared more. I then realized that I could actually change that theory to: I was playing less HU and 6m NLHE online. I was still playing a decent amount of poker, but I was dabbling in different games and arenas. Playing too much breeds an autopilot style of play, so playing too little is always better than playing too much.

These two factors allowed me to both play at capacity, and expand my thought process. We'll discuss why and how later, but at least some reasons should be intuitive.

Getting back to concept of the 'box', and thinking 'outside' of it, we can't. Our poker box is our cumulative ability to think about situations and theory. It's everything that we know that we can apply to a street, a line, a hand, a player, a session, metagame, etc..

I am going to make the argument to you that the poker box is the most important aspect of our game. Therefore, managing our poker box should be one of, if not the, highest priorities for a poker player. The good news is, we can expand our poker box, both temporarily and permanently. The stereotypical bad news is the opposite: our poker box can shrink, both temporarily and permanently.

Use this post as an introduction to this concept and think about the importance of both expanding your box, and keeping it at its current maximum capacity. Brainstorm how you would be able to grow your knowledge base (ie your Poker IQ), and think about what detrimental things may cause your box to grow in the wrong direction. I'll be back with some lists tomorrow/the next day, but I want participation and feedback when I post them. The more effort you put in, the greater the results will be.

Greg

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11-22-2009
redCashion is offline redCashion
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Nice post Greg. I like the idea that specializing too much hurts your game, I've found this to be true as well.
11-22-2009
btimm is offline btimm
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I am very excited about reading more of your posts Greg. Keep 'em coming!
11-22-2009
thac is offline thac
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Expand my box. Got it.
11-22-2009
thac is offline thac
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...wait, what?
11-22-2009
steel108 is offline steel108
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Very nice start. I think the factor towards expanding the "box" is discussing poker with those better than you. On the flip side, there is no better way to shrink the "box" than playing way too many tables.
11-22-2009
bigLEOser is offline bigLEOser
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i likeee
11-22-2009
klink- is offline klink-
greggggg
11-22-2009
Oki-Oki is offline Oki-Oki
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great post, as in up among the all time great posts
11-22-2009
dougiedan678 is offline dougiedan678
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nice
11-22-2009
fabioff is offline fabioff
Your "other game" theory is what I pray to my friends for ages. I always CRUSH holdem when I'm off to a week PLO but can't explain why. I really hope I can find the answer with your blogseries : ).
11-23-2009
Maximus13 is offline Maximus13
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Are not many of the fundamental principals learned in poker based upon theory for reasons of being +ev or -ev. Mistakes learned from or lessons taught. I have often found that when I attempt to be creative I end up getting to much fps. I have since learned to simply think and try to due the most +ev play in all situations. This may however be because I am currently grinding micro stakes, where an ABC style is most likely the + ev style. Bringing me to my question, How do I know when its Okay to start being creative, and steer away from some of the fundamentals that I have worked so hard at to learn. Also in a table environment where image,meta game,even common level 1 thinking is irrelevant, is it really all that possible for me to think outside of the box? I sometimes desire to throw away all table selection and find the toughest table I can find at my level and simply just get creative, and hone my skills. Is this bad?
11-23-2009
stockton is offline stockton
hmmm, completely changing the theory of the box eh? this is quite the task. I always thought that the "box" at least as it applies to games is the cumulative accepted theory of the authorities on the game (usually very strong players or a computer), and not in an individual sense as you have written. i will need to think on this more.

to maximus: "is it really all that possible for me to think outside of the box?"
-according to the blog post it is actually impossible to think outside of the box. given the parameters by MYNAMEIZGREG. given that the "box" is "our cumulative ability to think about situations and theory", any creative play (any play in general actually) in any situation at a table falls into the category of being in the box. and if it isn't in our poker box, but we think about it at the table....then it immediately becomes a part of our poker box, because the box is cumulative. <<< i know it doesn't answer any of your questions by the way. my answer for you? get money, fuck bitches. but thats just me.

very interesting read. curious to see the direction you go in.
11-23-2009
shootaa is offline shootaa
Greg's box is like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.
11-23-2009
Probability is offline Probability
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Quote:
get money, fuck bitches
you got it backwards.
11-23-2009
apostadorfurtivo is offline apostadorfurtivo
Great post, can't wait to read next development... I really would like to understand if its better to put a lot of focus in one type of game or play and learn other games like you are talking. At moment I still belive that specialization its better and the best example I can give its nanonoko.
11-23-2009
Unknown Soldier is offline Unknown Soldier
nice post greg. but to expand your box dont you have to think outside it first?

ex. lets say a beginner only 3b JJ+/AK because he knows they're strong and wants to build a pot, but just calls 9ts because he wants to see a flop first with a speculative hand. 3b 9ts is outside of his "box" now, but lets say he sees a video where someone does it and briefly explains balance/deception. Now he sees an idea outside his box (and is forced to think about it), so his box expands because he has thought outside it.
11-23-2009
DirtySanchez80 is offline DirtySanchez80
good read so far..

for me your point is like: thinking outside the box = never stop reconsidering (which works best if we constantly put our self in spots where we have to think)

It's probably impossible to think "outside" our box cause it represents the entity of our poker related logic/creativity/strategy atm. but we have to constantly try to verify the arguments why we're using a line in a spot vs a opponent.

Nearly all the (poker related) friends i listen too are using lines and making a play in a spot and they dont think deeply about or have a good logical reasoning for what they're doing but are very comfortable with that and often wont accept critics on their play/strategy (only after a looong fierce discussion). If there's something that has worked for them often enough they just accept that but they dont try to get deep into the logical approach blabla... they keep their boxes impenetrable for new ideas & angles.

so keep on the good posting
i'm very interested where your thoughts are going...
11-23-2009
shootaa is offline shootaa
I think the box represents the logical possibilities of the world and of the game, so it's not something you can go beyond (if you can go to it). Everyone's box should be the same size, they just don't know what's in it, imo.
11-23-2009
MYNAMEIZGREG is offline MYNAMEIZGREG
Good thoughts. I'd like to open up a discussion further about this concept. I'm going to think about how to do this and get back to you all.
11-23-2009
Malefiicus is offline Malefiicus
Kinda interesting that you post this, considering lately I've been wondering if I've grinded the same stakes for too long to really change my style a reasonable degree. This makes sense, venturing into other games every now and then in order to change the norm and perhaps learn a few things that are applicable in varying forms of poker.

I guess since everyone is taking a stab at what they view this box to be (so far I'm rather confident shootaa's assessment of gregs box is closest to the truth), I might as well give it a try too.

When you start learning about something you have no ideas on what's right or wrong. You're just a blank slate. As you learn about something, you start defining the situation with rules. "Never do this, if you do x you're horrible, nobody calls if you raise here". Once you make these rules, you have boundaries on your creativity, and you end up stifling yourself. So in order to step outside of the box you need to generally find someone to help you ascertain when breaking certain mental rules you've set up is correct. If we're going to use the box metaphor I think I should note that, in reality you're never stepping outside of it you're just editing the walls.

So now another option to escape the mental handicaps you've used to get you where you are, but are now impeding your travel to where you want to be, is to engage in similar situations that you're unfamiliar with so that you can take a new approach to it and perhaps bring something back with you.
11-23-2009
Maximus13 is offline Maximus13
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Quote:
<<< i know it doesn't answer any of your questions by the way. my answer for you? get money, fuck bitches. but thats just me.
Not exactly, but it helped me understand Greg's Post better! Thanks for the Help!
11-23-2009
stockton is offline stockton
Quote:
you got it backwards.
i wrote it in order of importance
11-24-2009
TheChosenOne is offline TheChosenOne
How can your poker box shrink? It seems hard to me to unlearn things, especially permanently.
11-25-2009
shootaa is offline shootaa
Robotting, not playing, not caring, not trying, etc.
11-26-2009
TheChosenOne is offline TheChosenOne
then you're just not applying what you know, but once you learnt it, it's hard to unlearn.

Let's say you have just found out how to 3bet guys with the right frequencies and cards. Then you stop playing for a while, so this knowledge is not fresh in your mind anymore. But it's still there. So if you start playing again and really think about it you can recover the information.
11-26-2009
luckychewy is offline luckychewy
came here to make a box joke but got hella beaten to the punch. having said that, this is a good post.
12-09-2009
pplayer28 is offline pplayer28
Hmmm, it's 6am est. I just finished a pretty grueling session and felt compelled to respond to this post with my brainstorm'd list. Also, being your #1 pupil and all, I feel slightly obliged. =) Please excuse the poor english since I am still learning how to formulate my thoughts into coherent sentences and I have been up for almost 24hours.

Wrong Direction
- Playing for too long
- Playing against competition where my edge is very very small (if any)
- Not being fully honest with myself about my game selection
- Not forcing myself to stick to a bedtime where i make sure i get enough sleep to be fresh for tomorw
- AUTO PILOTING
- Lack of focus (the second I look away from my table for more then a second is the second I should know to quit)
- Playing more tables than you should (varies for certain individuals)

Grow as a Poker Player
- Take time off to reflect on the game itself, the direction I want to take my game, how it has evolved, how I have evolved with it
- Set goals, whether they are short term, long term, intermediate, just set them and try and achieve them (try to avoid monetary goals fwiw they cause entirely too much stress and I feel only a certain type of person can handle them)
- Play an assortment of games .. Immediately after I typed this that cheezy quote "variety is the spice of life" popped into my head but I'd like to edit it slightly so it should read "variety is the spice of poker stimulation"
- Never move on from a decision until it is thoroughly evaluated and understood as being +EV
- Taking alot more time off ... I don't think I can stress how important this actually is and the feeling of coming back and crushing your bread and butter game is indescribable
12-09-2009
pplayer28 is offline pplayer28
edit: Well, I guess I should have reviewed the comments before I decided to post this since no one else actually created a list except me, but oh well. Such as life. This list is slightly premature in terms of my actual poker box, but I hope it helps the beginner who has just taken the lid off of his/her box. We all had to do it at one point or another.
 
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