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preflopjitters

Feb
17
2010
Couple o' Hands
Posted in Poker | View Comments (10)
 

I spoke with Probability the other day and he thinks I am playing too loose. I think he is right. I would like to play tighter preflop, but continue with improving my postflop game. I am much better at putting people on hands now, and I am always pleased to see my reads are accurate at showdown. I think I am pushing marginal situations though and getting involved with a lot of flips. I don't put in a lot of volume every month, so it takes me a while to ride out the variance and if the results are not in my favor, it affects my play for the worse. I will play much tighter (and more profitably, hopefully) until the end of the month and see how it goes.

Here are two examples of hands that I think I would just like to avoid.

NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
Hero ($50.25)
BB ($106)
UTG ($58.20)
CO ($50)
BTN ($49.75)-----Playing around 24/16 opening a ton of BTNs

Dealt to Hero Q K

fold, fold, BTN raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $5, fold, BTN calls $3.50

FLOP ($10.50) 2 8 7

Hero bets $7, BTN calls $7
------------I can tell by my bet sizing here that I was unsure of what to do. I think he calls with a pretty wide range preflop, and I bet this flop thinking I am folding out a lot of unpaired overs and Ax hands that have decent equity against me. All the same, I don't expect him to fold 99-JJ, and when he calls the flop, that is what I put him on. AKdd gets it in preflop, Axdd raises here, a set raises here on the flop, too.

TURN ($24.50) 2 8 7 4

Hero bets $18, BTN raises to $37.75 (AI), Hero calls $19.75

I decide to bet call with two overs that I think are good if I hit and a Q high FD which I think is good if I hit. I bet slightly less than I think I should, again, but I am just getting odds to call it off against what I think his range is.

RIVER ($100) 2 8 7 4 3

BTN shows T T
(Pre 56%, Flop 72.4%, Turn 68.2%)

Hero shows Q K
(Pre 44%, Flop 27.6%, Turn 31.8%)

BTN wins $96.50






NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($79.67)
Hero ($64.90)
UTG ($30.60)
CO ($86.08)-----75/2 65 hands, fairly aggro
BTN ($49)



Dealt to Hero 6 A

fold, CO calls $0.50, BTN raises to $2, SB calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.50, CO calls $1.50

FLOP ($8) J 7 3

SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $4, BTN folds, SB calls $4, Hero raises to $21.50, CO calls $17.50, SB folds

TURN ($55) J 7 3 2

Hero bets $41.40 (AI), CO calls $41.40

RIVER ($137) J 7 3 2 A

CO shows J Q
(Pre 42%, Flop 54.1%, Turn 72.7%)

Hero shows 6 A
(Pre 58%, Flop 45.9%, Turn 27.3%)

Hero wins $134

Preflop I make the call because I know the huge donk/limper just can't fold preflop once he has limped in. On the flop, because of where my head is at, I sigh and think "another high variance spot." When the donk donks half pot, I put him on a weak Jack or 88-TT. I felt really confident about this, and when the SB calls, I think he doesn't have anything strong. I think I should have raised a little bigger on the flop because then it would have given me better odds to ship the turn when I miss. I think I have a decent amount of FE, too. He tanks, calls, and I am good on the river.

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02-17-2010
EyeAmFirReel is offline EyeAmFirReel
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Hand 1:
Preflop I'm a bit conflicted. I can see why we 3b, but it does put us in a lot of crappy spots postflop oop when called. If we think the BTN is FOS can we take our perceived card strength advantage (vs their "wide" BTN range) and just flat? We're still facing the same positional problems, but I do generally think these players w/ large gaps between their vpip/pfr will fold enough to make the 3b +EV longterm. I'd prolly 3b as well, but still wonder if flatting is all that bad or w/out merit?

On the flop, in general I stick w/ level 1 aggression and just fire (and in auto-pilot mode I would have bet too), but taking the time to think about this hand, I think this is a spot where we're never folding out better and there isn't much worse to begin with in our opponents range to fold out... so betting doesn't accomplish much and since we think our opponent is likely to continue w/ a significant portion of their range (which we also think/know is ahead of ours), we're not really allowing them or forcing them to make a mistake. A worse mistake w/ what their likely range consists of would be to check back and give us a free card to one of our overs or strengthen our bd draw. So perhaps checking may be ok here? If we have to c/f on the flop, so be it, there aren't many worse hands in their range to begin with we presume, and of that range, there isn't much worse they'd bet/make us fold better with (i.e. hands that we'd be making a mistake folding). It'll look like we had AK and villain may note we don't bluff w/ it, which may allow us to more credibly rep strong broadway hands/boards in the future.

As played on the turn, I wonder if a c/r improves our FE any? I'm not thrilled w/ any option, but if we're committed thus far in a pot this large, w/ improved equity... we have to maximize our FE if we're gonna attempt to make this +EV as possible. I'm not sure/sold on any line over another, but whichever line is correct I imagine must max our FE.
02-17-2010
EyeAmFirReel is offline EyeAmFirReel
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Hand 2:
Preflop you think it'd be bad/too thin to call here even if we were closing the action? i.e. no CO in the hand, 3way instead of 4way? I agree it's an easy decision when we know the CO will complete and make it a 4way pot, but 3way 100bb effective can't be that bad either right? We know what kinda flops we're looking for and how to play them.

I think the rest of the hand is kinda like you said, usually a high variance flip based on the ranges you've given them thus far. Though I would note our FE is prolly diminished a bit against someone playing over 70% of their hands and aggressive at that... prolly getting looked up more than usual in this spot, but w/e.

In considering other lines on the flop, it's tough to get full value/realize our full equity share if we play it any other way. If we somehow get to the river before the money has gotten in, can we v-bet AxShitK? Can we get paid off if we do? etc., etc.

What did Matt say about hand 2? Hand 1 I think there are a lot of considerations/options/potential mistakes, but hand 2 seems fairly std/ok to me?
02-17-2010
preflopjitters is offline preflopjitters
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Matt agrees with you. Both hands are super questionable, the second being just bad. Flatting with KQo in hand 1 is probably the best, and on the flop and certainly the turn, we aren't folding anything out that we beat like you said. Hand 2 should just be a fold preflop. It will be too hard to overcome the positional and hand strength disadvantage for the rest of the hand. Also how often do I take it down when the flop started off 4 way.

My original title of the blog was "Two questionable hands," or something like that, but I thought I should let everyone decide for themselves, so changed it up.

I just finished playing an 800 hand session, playing much tighter than normal for me, 20/16, and much more straightforward. I even started out playing 6 tables just to make sure I didn't have time to get into too many marginal situations before dropping back down to 4 tables. At first I thought people were taking advantage of me, but that wore off. I just played a stronger range and let people bluff me a little more (and I didn't feel like I had to fold everyone out to win a pot) and it was relatively smooth. My graph for the session looks fairly "normal" in that the red line isn't the only one where I am making money. Also, after playing pretty straightforward, I didn't feel like people were putting moves on me because I hadn't really been giving them a reason too play back at me, and so a lot of spots that gave me trouble were just sidestepped as I folded confident that I was beat. I did make one regrettable 3bet bluff on a seemingly blank turn after I called a cbet on a dry flop IP. If villain hadn't turned a full house, I think it would have worked. It was after that play that it became clear that I could have just folded easily to a straight forward player whom I had no reason not to believe.

Play well. Do good work. Keep in touch.

PFJ
02-17-2010
bigLEOser is offline bigLEOser
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hand 2 i like the call preflop. but i also would just call the flop.
02-17-2010
MV88 is online now MV88
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Quote:
BTN ($49.75)-----Playing around 24/16 opening a ton of BTNs
Quote:
CO ($86.08)-----75/2 65 hands, fairly aggro
what exactly do these fractions mean?
02-17-2010
EyeAmFirReel is offline EyeAmFirReel
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@mikemayer,

They're not fractions... they are different player statistics separated by the hash mark - vpip/pfr... it's vpip (voluntary money put in pot) and pfr (pre flop raiser). So over 65 hands the CO for instance has played 75% of them and opened the action w/ a raise only 2% of those hands.
02-17-2010
klink- is offline klink-
hand 1: c/f flop
hand 2: lead flop, or c/c. LOL @ ever folding pre here.
02-18-2010
lingdog1985 is online now lingdog1985
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Hand 1, flatting s much better preflop unless you know he flats a lot of 3bets IP. I don't mind just check folding the flop, ur going get play back at a lot.

Hand 2, i think calling preflop is standard, we have relative position postflop and CO and BTN's range is going to be pretty wide here, i don't think we have a hand strength disadvantage at all. Not a big fan of the c/r, flatting s much better, ur getting a good price+ u want to keep worse draws in etc.
02-18-2010
dougiedan678 is offline dougiedan678
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1 I flat pre. As played probably c/f turn.

2. Id c/c the flop when its multi-way, leading is an option too.
02-18-2010
MV88 is online now MV88
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thanks EyeAmFirReel
 
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