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Pudge714

Mar
13
2009
Jon Stewart is a Douchebag
Posted in Poker | View Comments (5)
 

Well not really, I don't know him at all, I usually enjoy The Daily Show and watch it very frequently, but it always bothered me is when it took himself seriously and if you watched his interview tonight with Jim Cramer, he took himself much too seriously. There is nothing wrong with taking an issue like the financial crisis seriously, however if you are going grandstand and not make valid arguments, while being serious you look like a douchebag.
In the interview he jumps around making different arguments, sometimes even directly contradicting himself. He begins by saying both him and Cramer are snake oil's salesman, but he admits he is; given that he ends up spending the whole interview appealing to emotions or showcasing his misunderstanding about the markets, instead of creating real arguments I found this pretty funny.

Stewart begins by blaming the media for the collapse, this is such a typical move for pundits; members of the media, whether they are Limbaughs or Frankens or Bayless' tend overstate their own importance. So of course it makes more sense to blame other media outlets for not reporting what is going on, instead of the people responsible for what is happening. I think what a lot of news channels do are stupid, but they are clearly catering towards an audience; blaming CNBC for the economic collapse is similarly to blaming music or television for corrupting the youth. If CNBC didn't exist people would still be aware of others getting huge returns in the stock markets and they would attempt to replicate them. People are not losing money because they are following Cramer or any other pundit de jour. They are losing money because they don't know anything about financial markets; however if their neighbour had a hot stock tip he would still probably be investing. Stewart said he wants CNBC to be a watchdog and "a powerful tool of illumination" this is ridiculous. They are a business trying to make a profit; it shouldn't be their responsibility to perform tasks others are failing to do. This flawless idealistic news channel is a great idea in theory, but until someone feels paying for that ideal it won't happen.

Stewart proceeds to say that their are two markets; a 401k market and an equity trading market. He makes it seem as if the equity market consists solely of day traders and corporations preying on the weak and the bond markets consist solely of little old lady's living off their 401k; this is false. There are individuals who trade in equity and tons of corporations/traders are active in the bond market. He is creating a false dichotomy where you are either Joe everyman or the monopoly man. He is ignoring that equity returns are correlated bond returns and on of the reason individuals can live off their 401k is because of this evil market. I am not saying that super gambly borrowers are justified, but that ignoring the correlation between the two is intellectually dishonest. Eventhough there is very little risk in retirement plans, ignoring any sort of risk is either stupid or ignorant and while it sucks when stuff like this happens; ignorance or risk should not be a defense when **** happens.

Throughout the whole show Stewart acts as if the only greedy people are the wall street traders and ceos; most of the people are greedy. People are investing for a safe retirement, but they are also attempting to make a profit. Just like any market their are fish and the fish in this market are trying to make profits as well. There are traders who lost tons of money; there are fish who made a ton of money, pinning this greed on traders and ceos, while victimizing everyone who lost money in the market is stupid. A lot of people knew what they were getting into. If they didn't know what they were getting into that is their own fault for not doing due diligence, while that may seem callous it is necessary for the market to work.

The climax of his stupidity comes when he compares the stock market to infomercials and get rich quick schemes; promising certain returns. He is ignoring that the stock market as a whole serves a purpose. It allows businesses to raise money so they can hire workers, so they can manufacture products, etc, while there are flaws in the market for sure it serves a very clear useful purpose and comparing it to infomercials or get rich quick schemes ignores the social utility created by the market. Just because people will get hurt/lose some money for making bad decisions doesn't make the system wrong or unfair.

All this being said I don't think Cramer won, he didn't answer Stewart's questions, he appeared weak and wasn't compelling at all. Cramer did seem genuine and even kind of likeable despite getting railroaded throughout the whole interview.

That was therapeutic

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03-13-2009
BobboFitos is offline BobboFitos
I haven't watched this (yet, perhaps provide a link?) but the stock market to infomercial analogy isn't actually flawed. (It's been done before/Ponzi scheme) And I generally like Jon Stewart, so this is disconcerting to hear
03-13-2009
Pudge714 is offline Pudge714
Bobbo,
It's on the comedy central website it's tough for me to link to it because it auto redirects to the Canadian comedy network for me and idk if you can access that. I think a lot of people will agree with Stewart, personally I believe in capitalism, the free market, etc. I am aware that systemically there will be winners and losers, but I don't think that makes the system bad. Others who have entirely different value systems than me, will watch the interview and see Stewart's populist rage and agree with him. I think the stock market infomerical analogy is a really big over simplification that ignores all the good that the market can create. Comparing someone like Madoff to a snake-oil salesman makes sense, but acting as if the market as a whole is just a way to get the Madoff's of the world rich is wrong.
03-13-2009
etown is offline etown
yah its incredible how different your perspective is on that interview from what i took out of it when i watched it. Aside from a few of Stewarts ridiculous metaphors he made lots of valid points in regards to the control the media has on the the masses.

In regards to your statement on him blaming the media for the collapse it is in part true though. The markets are all about speculation they reflect the information on shows like Jim Kramer's and he wasnt directly saying it was Jim's fault. He credited Jim for being highly educated in the markets and was talking in regards to not enough information being put out on the show about the whole banking crisis and sub prime mortgages.
Not only his show but all shows ignored it. You seem to know your stuff and im sure you knew this collapse was happening 2 years ago like most people who knew anything about sub primes(we just didnt realize it would be so catastrophic) too but really no mainstream network was allowing the information to be put out there.

The parts of the interview i did find unsettling were his references to clips back in 2006, im not sure if this was an ambush or if kramer at least knew before hand. But than when Jim defended himself John would say it wasnt about him, well stop referencing clips of him saying things than.

I thought a large part of the interview was just referencing some contradictory things Kramers been saying since the crisis started on his show. To be honest ive stop following the show since the recession began but i understood the references John was quoting Jim on.

what bothered you the most about this was it that it was directed at Jim? i think someone had to finally call the media out on the situation and Jim is a large face of it
03-14-2009
Janman is offline Janman
I think the problem is that CNBC claims to be a powerful and reliable source of news and advice regarding the markets, while the truth is that their journalism is incredibly shoddy. They frequently take whatever a CEO tells them at face value and report it as the truth instead of investigating further. It's lazy and amateur at best, and deliberately malicious at worst.

This is what Stewart was getting at with the "snake oil salesmen" comment. He has no problem admitting that his show is meant solely for entertainment and comedic value. CNBC on the other hand has no more journalistic integrity than The Daily Show, but touts itself as being much, much more than that. If Cramer's show was on Comedy Central, or if CNBC was renamed the Comedy Network, then they could get away with existing solely for entertainment value and Stewart would have no problem with it. Stewart is angry that CNBC is selling themselves as something far bigger and more important than a comedy show, but not doing any of the work back up those claims.
03-14-2009
Pudge714 is offline Pudge714
etown,
I think it's getting into a huge discussion about the role of media is beyond the scope of this debate. However I think the bigger problem is a lack of critical thinking by the public, not the media catering to a public who prefers entertainment to news. This doesn't just apply to the Cramers/Limbaughs of the world, I have friends who believe and agree with every single thing said on The Daily Show. While it's better to blindly agree with Stewart instead of Limbaugh, they are both miles worse than actually thinking for yourself.

What bothered me the most is how Stewart hides behind being a comedian. When he disagrees with people and not just Cramer, I noticed this when Tony Blair and Mike Huckabee were on. He goes after people; he gets on his high horse spewing populist rage, however when some tries counter punching he says "I'm just a comedian I make fart jokes you are the real decision makers." If you are going to give tough interviews to important figures you can't hide behind the I am just a comedian card.

Janman,
I am not defending CNBC; they are just doing what they think is best to make a profit It's easy to blame CNBC for the crisis, but the government/banks/federal reserves are more culpable. There will always be "experts" giving great advice and if CNBC didn't exist these people would be using their neighbours, random bloggers, a psychic, etc.as justifications for investing. Stewart creates a double standard where he can be serious when he wants, but when he gets called out for it he says "Hey guys I'm a comedian this is your problem"
 
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