$100NL vs WiltOnTilt - c/r for value and get lost

[thisbetom]

So I've had this new fascination with check raising top pair for value and I'm kinda stuck with a thumb up my ass and inflated pot OOP on a lot of turns/rivers...

I've been in line enough he shouldn't think I have like a red KJ/KT/Uno Card and cocktail napkin here (unless it's KJhh) and also 3betting enough that I shouldn't really have many Qx that value c/r either.

I don't get here often, but in game I thought shoving river is best as a bluff (almost like it better than c/c or c/f)? It's hard for me to have an airball and hard for him to have a hand that can call given my line... I dunno, I'm lost in a mindf**k of ranges and was just looking for other thoughts/opinions.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
Hero ($276)
WOT ($100)

Dealt to Hero K Q

WOT raises to $3, Hero calls $2

FLOP ($6) 4 4 Q

Hero checks, WOT bets $5, Hero raises to $14, WOT calls $9

TURN ($34) 4 4 Q A

Hero bets $22, WOT calls $22

RIVER ($78) 4 4 Q A 3

Hero bets Alllllll in ($61 eff)

[aejones]

yea i mean i don't like it much without crazy history that might not be relevant here, but it might be okay? what hand do you think he gets to the river with that he folds. personally, i can't think of too many. maybe same hand (all QXs) or maybe AQ? i get the feeling he might be slowplaying/might have KJ/JT/AX of spades himself more than anything he'll fold though.

[thisbetom]

Originally Posted by aejones

yea i mean i don't like it much without crazy history that might not be relevant here, but it might be okay? what hand do you think he gets to the river with that he folds. personally, i can't think of too many. maybe same hand (all QXs) or maybe AQ? i get the feeling he might be slowplaying/might have KJ/JT/AX of spades himself more than anything he'll fold though.

He'd been "reading" hands and giving me credit when applicable... Like lead/fold turn on J877 after flop checked through. Worth mentioning I'd also been pretty lame/passive with the double barreling IP too, but that was more due to bad turn (pairing, 2 on a dry board, etc...) cards than me wimping out. History isn't super crazy though by any means and he should think I have like 0% Uno Card/Cocktail napkin here.

I didn't think it all the way through in the hand (clicked the buttons too fast), but I think he folds pretty much everything that isn't boated or his own nut flush on that river. I could be wrong, but even like 4x can't be too comfortable clicking the call button. I either fold him off Ax that floated flop not giving me credit for a made hand yet and picked up a turn he could call again... Def fold him off a chop imo.

[Laser Show]

Seems pretty bananas. You're going from c/r for value to trying to bluff a turn card and then a river card (representing different hands each street?). C/ring top pair can be good in spots, but I don't like doing it on paired boards. Against good/aggressive villains you can get more value by c/calling b/c your hand will look like Ax and small pairs that can't stand heat (or he'll value town his Qx). And I don't think he ever folds a 4 on the river. Ask yourself if you were c/r a 4 here on the flop would you c/f river? Still, bananas won't always be bad, some opponents will make tightish folds b/c most people don't 3barrel these spots. I just don't like how your reasons for betting changed along the way.

[bw07507]

Turn sucks since u now chop with all weaker Qs and he floats A high a decent amount. I really don't know what to do on the turn. Kind of torn between betting to try to bluff out Qx and charge FDs and ch/folding.

[Isura]

you're not folding out Ax..

[mobaka]

I think his line is really odd, like you said he cant really ever have a hand that beats us on this flop other than QQ- Q-4 that wouldnt raise the turn.

His range on turn in my mind is q-10+- suited connectors and suited Aces, i feel like most of his calling range is bluff catching and not trapping
Where our range is consitent with 4x-Axs- so our bluff shove doesnt seem all that bad in my mind. Especially if we can bluff him off all of his bluff catchers.

Im currently learning HU, so if my logic doesnt make sense please let me know.