General plan for calling 3bets vs aggro players

[joetruelove]

Hello!

I play NL100/NL200 NLHU at different sites and been strugglin in the same spots over and over again. It goes something like this - it happens vs bad/aggro maniacs and NL100-NL200 kinda regish LAG spew - monkeys, (there are a lot of them at these stakes). So let`s say that villain has been 3betting as a lot us, like 20-30% or even more and cbeting close to 100% and barreling a ton on the turn. Ok, of course we do the following :

*Open less buttons
*Switch to minraise
*Call wider
*4bet him more

My problem is with flatting in this scenario. Ok, lets say we flat I guess our standart range - a lot of broadways and all kind of middlish-connected type of hands vs his wide 3betting range. Most of the times we are not gonna hit, neither our opponent. Is there any option we can counter-attack villains aggro barreling in these 3betting spots. Especially, I`m talking about these mid/low kind of dry boards, that are not that easy to hit..boards like 883, 943, T57, J32... I`m sure you get my idea.

Ok, lets take an example , we flat 3bet with QdJd and the flop is :
9c4s5d or,
we have Js9s on 8s7h3d or,
Ah9h on 2h4s7d

I`m sure you understand what I`m talking about, hands with some overcard equity, possible gutshot un flop and good backdoor draw possibilites.



Problem #1 =His tendencies=

At the first moment things dont look bad, because we have overs and a lot of backdoor draws, but the problem is that we are not happy to call, because villain will be barreling a lot of random cards and if we turn our backdoordraw equity how are we going to proceed? Villains will be barreling like crazy, but his barreling range will be rather depolarized than polarized with a lot of bluffs with some decent equity vs our range.

Problem #2 =Villain`s bet sizing=

This is another issue, because all those spewy regs and bad aggro players really don`t care about betsizing in 3bet pots, with that I mean usually their standarts are , cbetting 2/3 - pot on flop , and barreling turn around ~ 2/3 and leaving like around ~1/3 on the river. With that they cut out our playing ability on turns and rivers..And usually if they are bluffing , they will just ship a lot of bluffs or even go in c/calling-kind of -bluffcatching mode with their weak showdown value as weak as Ah, reason being, that they on river have massive pot odds to be ever folding. So we can`t just call and see what turn brings , because turn/river spots with this betsizing and stack-to-pot ratio will puts us in a really awkward spots.


Possible solutions :

1) Shoving ???
I switched to heads up poker like 4-5 months ago, before that I was playing a lot of 6max, and the counter-strategy I used that worked really good vs players like this , was to shoving my broadways vs their superwide cbetting range in 3bet pots. This is AEjones stuff, and it worked perfectly and had really great benefits, one of them being to be able outplay villains AK with our AQ, and if we got called we always had a pretty decent equity vs their flop overpairs and all other random stuff. Does this work in heads up poker? I have no idea, players tend to call much more looser and probably if there`s a flushdraw on the board or any possible draws , they are going to try to make some kind of sick herocalls with reason being they beat draws with their high card value. Any thoughts on this? Has someone tried out something like this and if yes, in what kind of spots, board textures etc.

2) Minraising (deepstack)
Another great thing I picked up from Pr1nnyriding2 series DC.com , for heads up is vs aggro people like that, just go for a minraise on flop. The problem is it works only in deepstack pots, where it`s not that tempting for villain to shove over your minraise, but my problem is with 100bb pots, so for this problem it`s not a solution I guess. This thing I`m definitely going to try out more often, it does a lot of things - kind of freezes our opponent, he won`t be able to shove that light, and if he calls , we get more information about his hand and possibility try to fold out his marginal hands on later streets.

3) Semi bluff 4betting?
Its basically take hands like A7o, Q8o, K6o etc. and try to 4bet (sizing 1.8x - 2.3x) them as a bluff vs players who are not capable of 5bet shoving light, but calling almost every 4bet. It seems like some semi bluff or even super thin value , reason being that villain will be calling even with worse hands and we are in position with initiative and will be able to take a lot of pots posflop, and the good thing we might actually reduce villains preflop 3betting frequency.


Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[flippity]

Originally Posted by joetruelove

At the first moment things dont look bad, because we have overs and a lot of backdoor draws, but the problem is that we are not happy to call, because villain will be barreling a lot of random cards and if we turn our backdoordraw equity how are we going to proceed? Villains will be barreling like crazy, but his barreling range will be rather depolarized than polarized with a lot of bluffs with some decent equity vs our range.

Usually if you have two overcards, a backdoor-FD and a GS you can just ship turn if you improve somehow. That should be working fine vers a polarized (cause they fold turn) and depolarized range (cause they vbet worse and call it off).

This is another issue, because all those spewy regs and bad aggro players really don`t care about betsizing in 3bet pots, with that I mean usually their standarts are , cbetting 2/3 - pot on flop , and barreling turn around ~ 2/3 and leaving like around ~1/3 on the river. So we can`t just call and see what turn brings , because turn/river spots with this betsizing and stack-to-pot ratio will puts us in a really awkward spots.

Well this should def make you fold any hand pre that cant hit a bunch of good pairs or overcards + gutshot kind of hands.

2) Minraising (deepstack)
This thing I`m definitely going to try out more often, it does a lot of things - kind of freezes our opponent, he won`t be able to shove that light, and if he calls , we get more information about his hand and possibility try to fold out his marginal hands on later streets.

With this move you can turn a ton of hands with very little equity into cool FE-hands, but you have to think about your range for doing it. It obv works best on boards they dont really hit and is gonna print you money if they really use 2/3 sizing everytime (OMG!).

3) Semi bluff 4betting?

If they call 4bets, now you can 4bet every reasonable hand that doesnt play too well in a 3b/pot (probably hands like A3,K5s,QTo). If they jam a lot, well, 4bet for value, be nitty, keep folding, turn on some nice music.

If you minraise pre and they still make it 9x, probably your best plan is to fold a lot and make moves in very specific spots (and see how they react to your tight image).

Edit: If you fold a ton vers 3bets and they still 3bet a depolarized range, now suddenly they are making a pretty big mistake.

[joetruelove]

Thanks a lot for the answer! I really appreciate it!

Ok , yeah I guess that smaller mistake will be folding to his 3bets, than calling with marginal hands and play fit/fold on flop, i guess folding around even 60-70% would be ok? Also , your thoughts on 4betting size with these hands we dont like to play in 3bet pots you mentioned? Lately I even 4bet the smallest amount possible I guess it`s 1.6x...because they will call anyways, and we will have to keep some kind of stack with these marginal hands we are 4bet to play two streets at least.

[Xeta23]

http://www.leggopoker.com/forums/hea...tor-16554.html

[luckychewy]

calling all the examples you gave(qjs/j9o/a9s) all seem reasonable vs the described opponent.

if you shove turn do they fold getting these sick odds with any regularity or is ace high just stacking off everytime on every turn?

[joetruelove]

yeah, lately i`m calling with plan shoving a lot of turns if I pick up some equity (calling if hitting a pair)..i guess the problem and my real frustration was when I use to float too light these kind of players..just with overs, or just some gshot and random stuff, because I had feeling they are runnin over me in 3bet pots..raising diddnt work, floating neither..Now I just fold more on flop + I get more selective with hands I`m floating and hands I 4bet preflop..and it works pretty good so far..

[kapeTheOne]

I have a question that has been bothering me for a while, when I am thinking in poker. If I have like A,K heads up and I 3-bet my opponents 3x raise, and he 4-bets me, and he haven’t 4-bet me in like 30 hands, here is whats going on in my head, I represent A,9 A,10 A,J A,Q A,K 9,9 10,10 J,J Q,Q K,K A,A, and if he 4-bets this kind of range, im not beating much with A,K right? Is it okay to just fold here out of position or is it just idiotic?

[dickens89]

Im flatting with the hands you were saying
"Ok, lets take an example , we flat 3bet with QdJd and the flop is :
9c4s5d or,
we have Js9s on 8s7h3d or,
Ah9h on 2h4s7d"

And i'm jamming those sorts of flops QJdd and 2 overs w/ the back door FD on the first than the J9 and 2 overs with the gutter.
If there 3betting a lot and cbetting a ton i'm def pretty happy shoving in those spots I say our fold equity is fairly high and if called we have a lot of outs.

[sauce123]

As villains defending frequency increases, your opening frequency should decrease. Your opening frequency should decrease a lot more vs an aggro 3bettor than vs a loose caller.

if someone is 3betting >25%, hands like Q9o, 85ss, K2ss, K8o etc become standard calls. when you flop a pair with these type of hands, eg Q9 on 973, etc, you are always going with your hand for 100bb.

you can punish a very frequent flop continuation bettor and turn continuation bettor by waiting till the turn to jam most of the hands you are going with, ie Q9 on 973.

[davisimo]

aside from whats already been mentioned add some AA and KK to your flatting range and let him barrel off at you