5/10 deep w/ antes QQ OOP

[desire]

villain is some random TAGreg - does some strange stuff from time to time like minopening MP and some other that i cant think of.
im playing very loose and 3-betting a lot IP (very little OOP but he might not be aware of that), villain is kind of play-back-atty and defends a lot vs 3bets both IP and OOP

how to proceed if at all ?


$5/$10 Ante Deep No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($498.50)
CO ($3214.00)
BTN ($2589.00)
Hero (SB) ($2496.50)
BB ($1000.00)

Pre-flop: ($22.50, 5 players) Hero is SB Q Q
1 fold, CO raises to $30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $110, 1 fold, CO calls $80

Flop: 7 7 6 ($245, 2 players)
Hero bets $175, CO raises to $390, Hero ?

[d2themfi]

well u shouldnt reraise him and u cant fold..

[playforfoodz]

i think if you're calling this flop, you'll need to c/r all turns completing gutshots and OESD simply because if you pretend to have only overpairs after calling this raise, it'll be impossible to play later streets. but in this case your QQ doesn't really matter.

D2, you just call call blank turns and rivers or fold at some point?

i think if the hero does play very loose and the villain is starting to adjust by playing back, desire simply has to start some variance wars, because his range on this flop is never strong neither for calling nor for 3betting, so he has 7x OOP 250bb deep only that often, so balancing his calling range with 7x is somewhat hard, plus QQ isn't the hand that will balance his range for calling this raise, because it's not a monster in this spot, but rather a showdown-bound hand that won't see it very often because of how much money there is behind.

something i've been thinking about is that if there is a chance that our 3bet will induce bluffs from the villain and we can get it in, then it's ~the same as calling flop and folding turn/river, because if we have a lot of equity on the turn/river after just flatting his raise and we fold, then we lose this % of the pot automatically by making an incorrect fold. however when we get it in on the flop in a manner that doesn't exclude bluffs from the villain's range, we have equity on every dollar that goes in (even vs 78,66,AA,KK,79 we have 10% equity), so we could argue what option is better and where we make a bigger mistake.

[desire]

I guess i should've said its more of a play-along hand given that I agree that flop is a pretty easy call, now on the turn it gets weird - 98 gets there and he makes a pretty big bet. He is leaving us with 1.2k into 2.4k on the river effectively.

$5/$10 Ante Deep No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($498.50)
CO ($3214.00)
BTN ($2589.00)
Hero (SB) ($2496.50)
BB ($1000.00)

Pre-flop: ($22.50, 5 players) Hero is SB Q Q
1 fold, CO raises to $30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $110, 1 fold, CO calls $80

Flop: 7 7 6 ($245, 2 players)
Hero bets $175, CO raises to $390, Hero calls $215

Turn: T ($1,025, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $715, $715 to Hero ($1,996.50)?

Flatting pre is an option. Your 3bet size is slightly too small as played both because you are deep and because it is an ante table and there is more money in the pot. Did you 3bet that size to keep the pot smaller because of stack sizes? If so you should probably lean towards flatting. Maybe it's just your standard w/e.

You can also check the flop. If he defends to much he will have a lot of whiffs, you only get value from pp's < QQ and 1/2 streets max which you can still get in. By taking a street off you keep the pot more manageable and reduce the risk of getting out played. I check fold the turn as you get owned alot and it's not a play many people make as bluffs very often.

[desire]

playforfoodz : i think turning QQ into a bluff on future streets would be a big error given how he is never folding a better hand than ours that he started raising with for value even if we c/jam T turn or something

pureklas : pre is standard for me and i dont think making it 120 instead makes a big difference, matter of preference i guess. i am aware of flatting being an option but i feel like the way i play i need to have QQ in my valuerange here most of the time. regarding checking the flop - this is the kind of area i pretty much dont do at all, reason being that i want to get at least 2 streets of value from like 99, 1 street from AJ type hands and im also c-betting this flop a lot with air (and as i said in OP he defends a lot to 3bets so his range is wide and i have to punish him for that). also i think to a decent player the line of check flop bet turn bet river will come as exactly what it is and we cant really ever have air like that.
as played though, people i've talked to with so far have said that turn is prob a c/f and i tend to agree

[playforfoodz]

if we check/jam, what does he beat? his raise was small enough to keep our 89 in the pot, and given his raise size it's unlikely that he has 89 himself because he'd probably make it bigger to gain more fold equity. or we could have TT. i mean, if you follow the logic "well, people never bluff here if they fire 2nd barrel", then we "shouldn't be bluffing either", right?

imo, calling this flop and c/f turn unless you hit Q is ridiculous - you're folding ~your entire range, and with two 7 on the board, you can have trips on this often, so it shouldn't even be a concern for the villain and he can barrel you relentlessly.

[desire]

Originally Posted by playforfoodz

if we check/jam, what does he beat? his raise was small enough to keep our 89 in the pot, and given his raise size it's unlikely that he has 89 himself because he'd probably make it bigger to gain more fold equity. or we could have TT. i mean, if you follow the logic "well, people never bluff here if they fire 2nd barrel", then we "shouldn't be bluffing either", right?

imo, calling this flop and c/f turn unless you hit Q is ridiculous - you're folding ~your entire range, and with two 7 on the board, you can have trips on this often, so it shouldn't even be a concern for the villain and he can barrel you relentlessly.

first part is irrelevant - i already stated my opinion on that matter in my previous post and he will be obv super pot stuck with anything after he bets the turn leaving himself only 1.2k behind. (and he can easily have 98, his sizing on the flop is fine and it would've allowed him to fire turn and riv nicely if he hadnt fucked up the turn sizing)

as for the 2nd part, thats not our plan for turns at all and i dont understand where you got that from, there are multiple factors (one being that i think 98 is a decent part of his range and it got there) which make this a fold but we are planning to continue on a lot of cards still

[playforfoodz]

what cards do you continue on and what do you do on the river?

although probably my perception of online deep games is pretty skewed after a ton of live deep games, which play a lot differently, dunno

[PlsTilt]

A question on villain's turn betsize.

He leaves himself so little, he can never bluff the river. If he's going for value why would he barrel big on the turn?

Would you be more likely to fold your hand on a small turn bet that leaves him a perfect rivershove than this 3/4th pot bet?.