5/10 i get c/r on river :(

[Danj.]

Hey, had an interesting spot today so figured id post the hand here.

Villain is 25/18/4, seems to be a pretty solid and good player, has been 3betting me a few times and ive just folded, i have also 3b him a few times and hes just folded. nothing interesting has come up between up postflop yet.

Non PT site, so have to put HH down from memory.

$1k stacks, 5/10nl 6 handed.


I raise 88 utg to $35, folds to Villain in BB he calls.


Qd Qc 4s - $77

He checks, i bet $55, he calls

Qh - $190~

He checks, i Check

Jh - $190~

He checks, i bet $145, He raises to $600, i???

[BobboFitos]

Well, you have a full house, those are pretty hard to laydown...would he c/r a jack? If not, obviously call. What jack could he have? Only thing that makes sense is AJ I think, not too many people call oop w/ KJo for example then elect to c/c, but w/ AJ they may bc ace high there is much stronger then king high.

44 got counterfeited, he's not folding 55/66/77 on the flop so he could easily have those on the river and think his hand is no good, and unless he has a history of slowplaying a big pair, he can't have say KK or whatnot. (Also, not likely to c/r for value with TT, esp. if they aren't doing it w/ AJ...) Anycase, quads or nothing, ("nothing" could even be 55...) and quads are really hard to hit. So, obviously call.

There are a few players that exist that have never in their life checkraised bluffed, so I suppose vs those guys you can fold, but this is a call vs unknown etc.

[BobboFitos]

FWIW turn is a clear value bet, people c/c ace high on the flop and most ace highs have 7 outs vs you, underpairs that hit full houses are not going away, plus 4x (or 44!) wont go away either. I expect to have the best hand ~80 to 90% of the time as well. Most pot control bc this is wa/wb, but the general rule to follow is if you expect you are way ahead often, you should stay in the lead.

If I had ace high, though, I'd pot control/take freecard, or perhaps a worse made hand I don't expect is best as often (like 55).

[aejones]

i would also bet the turn, and i lik ebetting the turn and (sometimes, really close) check behing river (I'd never v-bet 66 there without history, and i'd never check TT there except vs a nit, so 88 rly is in the middle of the gray area).

but yea, def def bet the turn, and then eval the river (sometimes timing based).

as for now, really close, sick if he can have a tiny pair and turn it into a bluff... but that's almost gottta be his most likely hand. people aren't thin enough to CR a jack here ( even if it is a plausble and maybe the bes tlike with AJ), so he's going to have a tiny pocket pair a lot, imo.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

I'm a station and there is nothing going on here that is telling me to change my ways

[cwar]

Considering hes a logical player extracting this way doesnt much sense, ppl do silly things with quads I guess, Id call for sure.

[Danj.]

thx for responses, you guys are right the turn is a vb.
And i did call the river and felt so owned when he turned over 99.

I later found out that villain is lapoker on 2p2

[SEABEAST]

wow that is so sick

[cwar]

Dayom.

[luckychewy]

some things to consider...i would expect a player with those stats to c/r a queen on the flop the vast majority of the time. i would also expect(without a read of course) for him to NOT oop float you, so jx seems unlikely. i also think since every pocket pair on the flop still has showdown value it's sort of unlikely for him to turn 22 into a bluff here(just cause most guys don't do that). at first i thought it was a fold, because i don't expect a guy to bluff us very much here as there aren't too many plausible hands he can get here to bluff with(again, assuming he can't turn a small pair into a bluff). but, with the recent influx of check raise river bluffs in the online poker community coupled with the fact that a queen is c/r the flop so often and a jack is quite unlikely, i think you see a random ax hand that peeled the flop and now feels like bluffing more than anything else. like i touched on earlier i think most tagfish guys that get here with a small pair get zeebo'd more than they turn it into a bluff.

something else to consider is that your line looks nothing like a bluff, so if he is good and you two have no extensive history, he should be more inclined to c/r than call w/ small pairs. this could mean everything or nothing depending on what level he's on, which is near impossible to deduce simply given his stats.