Bet Bet Bet faces shove

[petenilson]

2 hands and 2 different villains.

Hand 1 : Have villain as 22/16, 3b 13% v steal , call open 11%. No reads.

$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

Stacks:
UTG $1,441
UTG+1 $1,244
CO $825
Hero (BTN) $1,997
SB $1,122
BB $1,000

Pre-Flop: ($15, 6 players) Hero is BTN Kd Qc
3 folds, Hero raises to $30, 1 fold, BB calls $20

Flop: Kc 2s Qh ($65, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $40, BB calls $40

Turn: 6s ($145, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $90, BB calls $90

River: 9h ($325, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $180, BB goes all-in $840, Hero calls $660



Hand 2: Villain 24/19, 3b bttn 7% , call open 13%. Increasing agg. factor over later streets.


$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
4 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

Stacks:
Hero (CO) $657
BTN $609
SB $651.45
BB $1,436.55

Pre-Flop: ($9, 4 players) Hero is CO Qh Qd
Hero raises to $18, BTN calls $18, 1 fold, BB calls $12

Flop: 5h 4d 9s ($57, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $42, BTN calls $42, BB folds

Turn: 7d ($141, 2 players)
Hero bets $85, BTN calls $85

River: Jc ($311, 2 players)
Hero bets $175, BTN goes all-in $464, Hero calls $289

Feel I have a bluff catcher in both hands but its possible villain could be shoving AJd or KJd in hand 2. Hand 1 villain reps a narrow range and getting 2:1 on a call. In hand 2 villain reps wider value range but Im getting 3:1 on a call.

Thoughts?

[empanada]

I feel the first hand is tough spot cos villian shouldnt have much air by the river bar Ajspades and A10spades and he might c/r turn as semi bluff some % of time with those although of course we readless. 22 c/r flop or turn a significnt % of the time i would assume. j10spades only legitimatecombo of j10 to get to river again might c/r turn... i guess k9s could jam river ? seems thin tho ,.. readless i would prob call cos so few hand value combos played in this particular manner also if we think that this is situation where villain can ptentially turn made hnds into bluffs if we find him doing this could give u a higher equity edge when making future decisions gainst him which then has some compenstion value against times he has it. The second spot is spot where u could both barrel river pretty thinly for value and bluff .For this reasn we can assume he might turn some weak made hands or busted draws into bluffs especially if he thinks u can fold some thin value combos if u on level where "he never bluffing here" cos of lack of f/e. You would barrel 100% of ur air on this river i presume and if hes good enough to know this he can def turn up with 25% air here or as u pointed out lighter value than ur actual holding in this spot. so i just say call call.

[OmgOverbetsss]

H1- I'm going out on a limb and saying that he would not flat 22 pre in this spot. Also, your sizing seems a bit small on all streets. Not sure if that's your standard or not. I feel like you could go slightly larger though.

If we give him all 99 and 66 combos, as well as JTss for value and ATss,AJss as his bluffing range, this is still a fold. If we discount sets and only give him 1 99 combo and 1 66 combo then we're 60/40 vs his range and have a profitable call. However, I think it's an incredibly marginal river spot and unless I have a read that he is capable of c/r bluffing rivers into an uncapped range, especially when he can't rep the nuts very well, I would probably fold.

H2-I think villain shoving AJd/KJd is pretty damn thin on his part so I think we've still got a bluff catcher here. It's a close spot, but I think I'd be more likely to hero call on this hand than the first one. Again, without knowing what the opponent is capable of makes the analysis very difficult.

[aejones]

i would call hand 1, i think he has qj or something turning into a bluff. sometimes people assume when stuff gets there tehy can rep it even though they can't-- is this guy really check calling with jack high twice? did he really not three bet 99 pre and then check call it twice? really more likely for him to turn something not good enough to call with into a bluff since it's all the rage these days

doubt anyone shoves a jack here, but your river bet sizing seems a little small. it's tough when soemone shoves against a nutted range (and it takes balls) but when you make it less likely you have the nuts by betting 60% of pot on the river instead of 75%, sometimes people bluff raise. i dont' know how he'll react to this.

[grogheadflow]

Hand 1 given positions I can see him check calling J-hi twice. Maybe you check ace-hi a lot, and he has the nut 'non ace hi' high hand. Still calling to find out tho obv !

[JamesMa]

I think hand 2 is more of a call than hand 1...results!

[petenilson]

hand 1 villain showed KTs and hand 2 villain showed A3dd

[shootaa]

I think people's propensity to turn a hand into a bluff in the spot in hand one can also be in hopes that you'll extrapolate the thought process of "my range is much more nutted; whereas his is generally capped" and just go for it.

I agree with everyone else that any legit hand seems too thin for him to have or is significantly discounted by flop play given board texture, for hand 1.