couple of multibarreling spots at mid/highstakes

[desire]

So here are a couple of hands where I decided to multibarrel, I will try to add some relevant stats or my reads/history.


1) So in this hand, preflop just basically trying to set an aggressive image and looking villain to play extremely straightforward post with his hands face up (std TAG, no reads, first time I 3bet him this sess).
On the flop I realized later after discussing the hand with some guys that flop bet is too small ( more around 85 I guess ), other than that I have a gutter and I c-bet.
After he just calls the flop I am excluding all big hands from his range and decided to just 3 barrel and expect him to fold anything up to JJ which I strongly believe makes up his entire range.
Also a timing note, he supertanked turn which makes me think he made a set plan for river.


Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $387.20
UTG: $2,108.85
CO: $451.20
Hero (BTN): $800
SB: $802

Pre-Flop: 4 5 dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG raises to $14, CO folds, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, UTG calls $34

Flop: ($102) 3 9 7 (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $66, UTG calls $66

Turn: ($234) 7 (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $162, UTG calls $162

River: ($558) 2 (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $524 and is All-In


2) At this table I have an aggro image and just lost a 400bb pot couple of hands ago. Villain seems to be a weak nit and we have no history.
Preflop superstd, flop std c-bet, basically same thing happens again - I think after he just c/c's his range he can never be stronger than 1pair, so I bet the turn and plan on betting the river as I think he has pair+gutter type hands a lot, so thats exactly what I do (also river comes a 3flush and I can easily rep that). Also here as well I realized later that my betsizes are too small for these stacks but ok.

Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $2,219
UTG: $1,653
CO: $2,288.75
BTN: $2,000
SB: $3,970.45

Pre-Flop: J A dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, SB calls $5, Hero raises to $35, SB calls $25

Flop: ($70) 8 T 9 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $50, SB calls $50

Turn: ($170) 2 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $135, SB calls $135

River: ($440) 5 (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $345

3) OK, so this hand I am clueless about, I feel like pre I standard, on the flop he is probably betting a wide range and I decide to c/r figuring I can fire multiple streets if needed. However, after he 3-balls my c/r I get kind of clueless - don't really wana fold, can't really call and just spazjam basically.
Question that I'm interested is if I can just c/c flop or if I do c/r then can I fold to his 3-bet (w/o history I doubt he's ever bluffing and he can even have my draw in a bad shape with AXcc or something)



Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $2,065
BB: $1,793
UTG: $2,142.75
MP: $1,970.50
CO: $2,000
BTN: $3,964.45

Pre-Flop: K Q dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG raises to $30, MP calls $30, 2 folds, Hero calls $25, BB folds

Flop: ($100) A 8 7 (3 Players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $70, Hero raises to $250, UTG folds, MP raises to $780, Hero raises to $2,035 and is All-In

Results: $1,660 Pot ($1,660 Rake)


4) And here the last hand. Villain is like 38/20 semi-LAG and I am yet to understand if he's decent or just a bad aggrotard.
I think up to turn is superstandard, however turn is an all-around known bad doublebarrel card, so I decide to keep betting representing a very strong range and follow through on the riv thinking he would never slowplay anything on that flop bc it's so drawy and Kx hands can't stand heat by the river. (???)

So as a general rule in these hands I just see weakness or hands that can't stand much pressure and try to lean on them, are there any general rules or tips that I could apply to in similar spots ? It just seems to me that I am going bat**** insane trying to 3-barrel everyone off everything because they can never be strong in spots like these ...

Also thanks to anyone who actually took the time to read all that stuff and give his thoughts


Full Tilt Poker, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $364
BTN: $985
SB: $190
Hero (BB): $1,017
UTG: $2,311

Pre-Flop: A 3 dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG raises to $25, 3 folds, Hero calls $15

Flop: ($55) Q 6 K (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $16, Hero raises to $70, UTG calls $54

Turn: ($195) 6 (2 Players)
Hero bets $150, UTG calls $150

River: ($495) 5 (2 Players)
Hero bets $390

[alexgotay]

I usually play 2/4, but here are my thoughts.

1- I think is bad, after you 3bet the UTG I think his range is calling you on the turn like 100%. You have no outs so you probably gonna have to bluff the river like always and that's no good vs his range. Your cb as you said should be bigger imo. On the river I think you get called by 89 if he seen you do it,unless he is playing like 12 tables, and only small FD fold the river since I think FD + Overs can raise before then a lot.

2- Bad thing about that one is that its blind vs blind and no one ever believes, and even more so if you are polarizing your range that much. Also the fact that he saw you losing a big pot earlier could make him think you are on tilt and desperate to win it back, giving him an excuse to call.

3- He just 3bet a ck/raise in a UTG raised multiway pot deep. I don't think you have fold equity and he is willing to go allin. I would usually just ck/call in that spot, Folding is probably best as played, if you call he is not always gonna pay you out if you hit this deep.

4- I would look for his UTG vpip the higher the better, If he is decent I think I like this one better specially because of his bet size, but probably I'm lead/raising in this spot.

I think that you need more info on the villains to pull off this kind of bluffs in these spots, if they ever saw you doing that before, no one will ever give you credit.

[d2themfi]

these all heavily depend on ur image, but imo 1>2>4>3 with 1 being the only one I really think could be good,

[BobboFitos]

I HATE hand 1. From start to finish.

Hand 2 is better then 1, but not as lovely. Take the free card on the turn. If you bet the turn, you must bet that river.

Hand 3 you need to fold once he 3bets the flop. It sucks, but out of position, not getting direct odds, and unlikely to have sufficient FE to shove means you need to fold. I don't think this makes the c/r bad.

Hand 4 I like best of all of them, and is probably the only one that worked.

[Unknown Soldier]

i dont like 4, i think you'll get snapped a ton. Not a fan of 1 either, but i think it's slightly better than 4 (the river part of the hand anyway, just fold pre) 2 >> 1 > 4 imo. as for 3, well not really a barreling spot, but as others have said prob should fold once he 3b

[Isura]

I hate 4, and like 1. 2 is fine and 3 I doubt you have much FE and he can have better drwas. People simply don't bluff 3-bet in this spot.

[desire]

couple of thoughts :

first of all I agree 100% that I should fold to the 3-bet in 3rd
about other hands however, you guys are giving very different opinions so I am still clueless
basically all of my plays make sense in my head and I think you should add some decent reasoning when you post ( even though im thankful for any feedback as it was a long post )
alexgotay added some reasoning that I don't quite agree with : 1st hand, we are 200bb deep and 98 makes no sense for him and my 6 is very likely a clear out (also the fact that me 3-betting him for the first time I would feel very sick making a rivercall there with even like JJ)

kind of rambling here but please add some thorougher insight if you decide to post so that I could understand why certain plays are bad or why not, just telling that 3rd was better than 2nd isn't really helping

thanks again

[BobboFitos]

Ok, a little more in depth:
Hand 1 is really bad because you've decided he has a fairly strong range. Why is this? Well, he opened from EP; called a reraise (when you've already decided he's not opening that loose UTG, or has any reason to defend light); and did not fold the flop. What this means to me is he simply doesn't have ace high or 55; his WEAKEST hand here is 88, maybe 78dd or something if he's being super frisky. On the turn, the 7 helps his range, as it's unlikely he has an underpair lower than the 7 (which would feel they have less equity vs a legit hand) and it's not inconceivable for him to have trips. QQ+ is never folding, and I know you say JJ would be a hero to call, but again, it's not a guarantee fold.

So when he calls the turn, his weakest hand here is a 9 (VERY rare, also 98 and T9 of spades now have flushes, so technically just 4 combos of weak 9s) and the hands that MAY fold are 99-JJ, which some % of the time folds the turn.

So basically, you're bluffing into strength, when villain could be slowplaying ("slowplaying" here could mean just calling down with QQ, for example, fwiw) and not only that, but you get very few guaranteed folds. To be frank, this 3rd barrel is likely throwing away 300$ or so, which is a massive mistake.

So that's why I think hand 1 is terrible and the worst of the lot.

[BobboFitos]

The reason why I hate it from start to finish (literally not a single street I like) is also you say you want to 3bet THIS hand to "establish a dynamic". Why the hell do you want to establish a dynamic when a tight player opens UTG? The cost of that dynamic is just too great here. It seems you're fluidic in your 3bet frequencies, which is fine, but even outside of a vacuum this is a poor spot to 3bet.

About the flop, you say you wanted to bet bigger, and imo (to borrow from Aaron) villains calling range, especially when he's straightforward, is fairly inelastic. So, the sizing of your bet shouldn't change MUCH - if he has AK (he may 4bet it pre anyway) he's mucking, same with AQ (although he may fold that pre). If he has an overpair, he's c/c the flop, unless he's c/r. Again, since he likely has a decent range, and the only stuff he prolly will c/f will be like KQ with no outs, i'd just check behind and hope to bink a straight.

As noted, 7 helps him more than you (in his straightforward perceived range, atleast), so a 2nd barrel here is only to knock him off a weak overpair... which isn't the best idea in general, but you didn't even mention he was weak tight. many std tags are fishy in their hero tendencies, most would c/c down with an overpair.

Hopefully that sums that one up/

[BobboFitos]

Reason I do like hand 2's last barrel is that I agree with you, a nit generally c/r the flop or turn with something big and very rarely will have the flush when he c/c the turn unless it was a decent draw, and those c/r the flop some% of the time, and even when they don't sometimes they lead the river. So I think his range is actually pretty weak from start to finish. However -

It's BvB, and the turn changes nothing. You have showdown value vs things like KJo, 45hh, etc. and you have a weak draw. Getting c/r isn't the end of the world, but I think you don't have a ton of FE. So, since I imagine you wont get many folds AND you dont have an equity advantage, I don't understand betting. FWIW I would check the flop a decent % of the time, especially BvB.

As noted I do like the 3 barrel, and I wouldn't be surprised if this one worked. Don't know why in my haste in my initial post I didn't like this one, in fact this is better then 4.