OCEANS 11 SAN DIEGO 10 20 DEEP

[2ndNature]

Playing at oceans 11 san diego, super deep, pretty good game for the most part. A lot of live fishes who are getting there "gamble on" and having a good time. Up to this hand me and Kevin had been dominating the table pretty much just winning every hand. Most players seem content to just see a flop but I do have the worst seat in the game(best player is to my left) who is relentlessly 3betting evry1. Villain 1 in this hand is some super fishy old guy, Villain 2 is Kevin Jonna, really good player who is very well balanced (use to play online)

PF,Villain 1 calls 20 (15kish) from HJ, I iso to 110 With QsJc(14,300) from CO, Villain 2 flats button(has both of us covered) , comes around to HJ he calls,

POT $360
FLOP: Qd Js 3d
Villain 1 checks, Hero bets 280, Villain 2 calls, Villain 1 calls

POT $1200
TURN: Ah
Villain 1 checks, Hero bets 900, Villain 2 calls, Villain 1 calls

POT$3900
RIVER Jd
Villain 1 checks, Hero bets 1550, Villain 2 calls, Villain 1 Raises to 3100, Hero Calls, Villain 2 Shoves, Villain 1 folds, HERO??????????

Flop is pretty standard I bet about 3/4 pot, On the turn I decided the fish is gonna call me with a lot of pair+straights draws, and Kevin has to play some what straight forward since fish is still left to act. Plus my hand is just a little too strong I think not to bet. River is just crazy, I bet really small because I really though the fish made a flush and he was gonna raise, which is exactly what happen but Kevin decides to surprise us all. Villain 1 took a long time to fold and show his half of the table what he folded, I was pretty certain a flush. Like I said Kevin is a really good player and is very capable of crazy shit but can he really be doing this as a bluff, or worse for value? I did think he had a strong PF range because he wanted the fish in, but can he really be doing this as a bluff? He can't ever expect a fold from the fish right? Comments/ thoughts? Is this just an easy call?

[JoinMyStack]

wow very weird hand which is why playing deep is so fun!
Question upfront: Why not make a small raise over weak players minraise on river if he has a flush most often? If Kevin then shoves over our smallish raise you might be able to fold?
Dunno but as played Kevin might have put both of you on a flush because you just called and if he is that sick he might shove a worse FH or maybe even a bluff so i would call. And there just aren't many hand combos that he flats pre flop that have you beat on the river...

[JamesMa]

If villain 1 is fishy old dude then I assume villain 2 is always going to be raising better boats instead of flatting most of the time and when you dont reraise the fishy old dude your hand does look a bit weak since I assume you'd be raising a lot of stronger boats so your hand looks like flushes or KT a lot, QJ, AJ sometimes as well but capped at that, so he may make a move to try to move you off these type of hands... I think especially given ur weaker sizing on the river that your hand doesnt look very strong so I'd def consider calling here if you kinda think he's capable of bluff raising in this type of spot.

[King Dan]

ACE JACK

[PiercE]

As played, this spot is ridiculously sick. I'm in the camp that seems to think a small river raise is best. That way, only a lunatic would shove over that with a bluff and we extract maximum value from fishcakes. In this spot i would try to find any reason to fold, but I don't see how i could.
very interesting hands, GJ.

[jaymesbond]

results please, i have been dying for results

[Yeyeyesok]

Results;
This is AJ like 100% of the time unless this Kevin isn't as good as you think he is.
More interesting is what villain 1 folded...

[2ndNature]

I could not disagree with this comment any more, Him showing up with anything other then AJ makes him not good? that's insane lol..BTW to all the ppl who posted, I was gonna re raise the fish but part of the reason I called was to have Kevin call or to give him room to do something like this (because I know he's totally capable) Basically with that reasoning I would need to call, but during the hand when I thought it over it was just so close. Also does any one ever think he can ever do it with a worse FH for value, ever?

[PiercE]

Well, with that logic no way of folding this river. Also, not that many worse FH here either, 33? I think taking this line with 33 would be very very light. I suppose he shows up with bluffs or QQ perhaps AJ.

[Yeyeyesok]

Good shout; QcQh is possible as well actually. I didn't think of that, I would usually 3bet on button with QQ vs an iso though. I think good players mostly will too so you have to put less weight to that hand and given there is 1 combo....might as well discount it.

IMHO: I would stick with my original comment, Kevin is certainly not as good as you think he is if hes bluff shipping here. I think this is a retarded bluff spot for Kevin... Fish min raises on river after you 3barrel and then Kevin ships....It all looks strong to me.

The bluff ship might be ok if fish was replaced with another decent player or if somehow you both knew fish did this river min raise thing and folded in the past. You even put "He can't ever expect a fold from the fish right?" : correct in my opinion. Therefore Kevin is never bluffing. Therefore what value hands does he have? AJ with the outside chance of QcQh. 100%

In regards to Kevin value shoving a nut flush or 33...I think that is thin as well and I think probably -EV. Fairly close though but seriously FPS without lots and lots of history imho.