3/6nl 200bb deep

[JamesMa]

http://www.holdemmanager.net
NL Holdem $6(BB) Replayer Game#72278892299

JamesMa99 ($1,172)
GusanoZ ($1,725)
Mysters_Y ($600)
GabrielMoyaa ($609)
Liverio ($600)
benno_dk ($1,465)

JamesMa99 posts (SB) $3
GusanoZ posts (BB) $6

Dealt to JamesMa99 Ah Qh
fold, fold,
Liverio raises to $15
benno_dk calls $15
JamesMa99 raises to $60
fold, fold,
benno_dk calls $45
FLOP ($141) 5d 4s Qs
JamesMa99 bets $62
benno_dk raises to $144
JamesMa99 calls $82
TURN ($429) 5d 4s Qs Ks
JamesMa99 checks
benno_dk bets $288
JamesMa99 calls $288
RIVER ($1,005) 5d 4s Qs Ks 9c
JamesMa99 checks
benno_dk bets $885
JamesMa99 calls $680 (AI)

As from the video so hopefully ppl arent too results oriented but not a lot of hands with the villain. PTR has him down money so probably not a great player, he's playing at 29/20, hasn't been calling too many opens, I squeeze from the sb and have been fairly active if i recall, I expect him to defend pretty much his entire range though with a ton of money behind. History is I've coolered him once where I 3bet pf with KK and he defended 77. I cr'd a three flush board where he had a set and he b/c rather than b/3bet jam.

He folds to cbets 25%, raises cbets 50%. His relevant aggression stats would be he cbets 75% (3 out of 4 sample), and cbets turn 100%(1 of 1 sample), 3.2 aggro factor

My thoughts: I'm not sure how many SCs are in his range for button flatting, have top of my range, he could easily have 55,44, some flush draws but not sure if he flats those, some air and probably bluffs turns and rivers with the flush card getting there. Should I call down or just throw the hand away on the turn is the question

[The_End]

I haven't watched the video but with your line I probably fold river. He'll definitely bluff turn if he is making some random bluff, but given your flat on flop and turn you have a lot of flushes in your range?

[JamesMa]

I would assume yeah I have quite a few flushes in my range along with AQ,QQ-AA, some JJ/TT stuff on the turn

[dougiedan678]

I would probably fold turn, I feel like he will bet the river a high % of the time and we are just gonna be fucked, also if he has any rando air its more likely to be KJ KT than anything esle, which will prob bet turn chbk river.

id bet more on the flop, slightly worried that he could just be bombing due to that

[JamesMa]

yea my plan was to induce a raise on the flop I believe since I felt his range was wide for defending pf and felt he would shovel some money in with random sh*t since he's raising cbets 1/2 the time which was why I was more inclined to call down since I put myself there. I think w/ normal sizing the hand plays a bit easier to where I feel a bit better folding at some point either turn/river

[FabledHero]

If i'm calling that turn i'm calling down because I thikn it's a spot hel'l convince himself you're peeling turn with 1 pair + fd and if you miss you're folding. So if his range is pretty strong just fold turn, otherwise if you think he's bluffing a lot call down.

I like folding turn though in this spot without a spade because if he has any spade he has a ton of equity, if we had 1 spade that might be a spot where I just call down because we can profitably call turn due to our equity then on river we'll likely have pot odds to call if he's bluff raising the flop a good amount.

[ShrimpSoup]

I would 3-bet the flop as a default here. Im curious to know why nobody mentionned that.

[FabledHero]

Originally Posted by ShrimpSoup

I would 3-bet the flop as a default here. Im curious to know why nobody mentionned that.

In a 3 bet pot 3 way this deep I don't really like that. I don't think most villains are c/r worse Qx, so his range is pretty polarized, he could maybe have KK or something but I don't think you hardly ever see KQ. Given our equity is very safe, only really a K or flush card, and then occasionally some str8 cards improve villain not much point in r/r this hand. Would make more sense to r/r if we had like TT on a 942 board since our equity isn't as WA/WB.

[JamesMa]

Originally Posted by FabledHero

In a 3 bet pot 3 way this deep I don't really like that. I don't think most villains are c/r worse Qx, so his range is pretty polarized, he could maybe have KK or something but I don't think you hardly ever see KQ. Given our equity is very safe, only really a K or flush card, and then occasionally some str8 cards improve villain not much point in r/r this hand. Would make more sense to r/r if we had like TT on a 942 board since our equity isn't as WA/WB.

Should be noted that villain didn't cr, he just raised my cbet in position.

But back to his question, bet/3bet the flop isn't great to get in given how deep we are and unhappy getting in tptk for 200bbs here. So then the bet/3bet is really just a line that folds out all his air and we'll have to fold to a 4bet which I am okay with (but would rather do it with a hand other than AQ that has so much value and no need to turn into a bluff).

[ShrimpSoup]

I completely disagree with both of you

@fabledhero, you misread the hand the guy flatted an open then called a squeeze then raise the flop in position. No way he ever has KK here, 55 44 (3 combos each) and maybe 54s (2 combos) are the only hands that beat us here. I have played with that guy a bit and hes defnitely the kind to do random shit here like raise get in a Q or raise and call a flop 3-bet with 88 or 57 type of stuff, raise and shove over a flop 3-bet with a goofy str8 draw whatever. Even without talking about that benno guy specifically, regulars will do that some percentage of the time (and absolutely much more often than having KK or AA). Also any flush draw that raised the flop is gonna ship over a flop 3-bet more often than not.

@JamesMa, what have you been smoking dude? turning into a bluff? 3-bet the flop to fold is absolutely terrible wAQ here, if we decide to 3-bet the flop its obviously to get it in!!

All in all Im not saying 3-bettibg the flop is mandatory or even best (against benno it is though) but thats a decent option too. I completely disagree with your reasons not to do it