400NL: Blind vs Blind Semi-interesting river spot

[bugsycarrot]

Hi first time posting HH, so go easy on me. Please reply with some reasoning behind your answers.

Villian is a solid winning reg running at 24/19. Very competent post flop, good at hand reading etc. Actually one of the better, non-spewing regs at 400NL. So far no real aggressive dynamics during this session.

My image is pretty loose but inline, stealing lots of small pots.

Full Tilt, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $893
BB: $669.20
UTG: $811.25
CO: $643.50
BTN: $1,259.40

Pre-Flop: T 9 dealt to Hero (SB)
3 folds, Hero raises to $12, BB calls $8

Flop: ($24) 3 4 T (2 Players)
Hero bets $20, BB calls $20

Turn: ($64) 5 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($64) J (2 Players)
Hero bets $36, BB raises to $124

Obv, preflop and flop are standard, however some points for discussion are:

1) Opinions on the turn check? I thought villian is capable of floating this dry flop a lot, hence will be betting turn when check to. I'd be happily calling turn then folding most rivers, as he probably won't try to barrel me off my hand when it's that faced up.

2) My river half pot bet is basically for thin value. He's betting all stronger Tens on the turn and I don't expect to get raised here often. If you were betting this river at all (if not, please explain reasoning), what bet size would you bet and why?

3) Now he raises river, which is a spot I didn't expect to come up. What's he repping? How often is a call good? What about a raise as bluff? Sizing? What can I rep?

p.s never knew it takes this much effort to post HH. I guess I'll get better at it with time.

[steel108]

I don't understand the turn check. He is calling with a ton of hands on the turn that you beat since it brought the back door flush draw. If you bet the turn and get called, the river depends on villan. Versus most I would probably check/fold since most of his hands have showdown value and most people won't turn 56 etc into a bluff.

As played you are repping a one pair hand. If he is high intensity, this is a very good spot to put a ton of pressure on you. If he has a big hand here, there really is no reason to bet the turn since you would barrel if you picked up a flush draw. You can't eliminate the possibility of a big hand because he checked back. I would call here. He can have a bluff since you really aren't repping much, but I wouldn't be surprised to see JT or better. Call for the info since it seems like you will be playing with him a lot.

[coachgp]

Ya i dont understand the turn check either. However, with stacks, i think villain is betting the turn here with his really good hands. On the river, I'd prob just turn my hand into a bluff, even though we are prob good often enough to call, just to fold out Jx that is about the only thing that makes sense for him to raise for value, since ur hand is like some Tx or weak Jx that cbet, gave up turn, and hit on the river. If you b3b the river as a bluff you can still have nutted hands in your range (maybe debatable with the river betsizing?) that went for a turn ch/r? I dunno, since you should check the river then too with those hands... I still dont think you really get looked up that light if you b3b bluff the river

[bugsycarrot]

Hey thanks for quick responses.

I have stated why I checked turn in the original post. I think he is floating this flop with a lot of ACE highs, 2 over cards maybe and pp gut shot. When I check turn, I give him a chance to bet it where as when I bet he either folds or could bluff raise me.

Now if we b3b river what would your bet size be? Pot is $224, he has $413 behind. A pot size raise will be $312.

[n4rf]

I don't like b3b river - even though we CAN have nutted hands in our range, villain will not believe us.

I think I'd much rather c/c river as played than bet

[coachgp]

@nerf
do you ever see anyone snapping you off here with like KJ or somethin? unless you are playing some 2p2 dickhead thats like oh shit bvb i have JT, theyll know its just a bluffcatcher. The more i think about it tho its prob a call just bc its just air a bit?

[Nicolak]

Like everyone said, bet the turn cuz it defines hands...makes the riv easier to play that way...then you can decide to c/c riv. As played prob fold to riv raise. You said he's good and doesn't spew so his likely hands are AJ, KJ, J3s that is raising for value cuz of your small riv bet, although w/ that said both of you 2 are repping such a narrow range cuz of the turn check that there is def. some merit to b/c and b/3b (shove if 3betting...your hand looks very nutted this way and his hand should never be a straight)

[n4rf]

I dunno I just can't ever see this being an air type hand from villain once he checks back turn

tho I think it's b/f > b/3b > b/c

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

Posting blind...

Bet turn.

River: bf is better than bc. B3B can be better than both or worse than both depending on how creative he thinks you are and how aggro he thinks you think he is.

[bugsycarrot]

appreciate all the replies.

for those interested, i did actually shove over his river raise. just following thru with my read of him and his perception of me, i just thought i could hv nutted hands that missed a turn check/raise. i bet river to try and get his mid ish pp to make a hero call and i never expected to get raised. I am pretty certain he was not bluffing me on the river and i do agree with n4rf that b/f > b3b >>>> b/c. he folded.

looking back i don't really like the river b3b for a couple of reasons
1) he is never bluffing me on the river, hence i'm trying to make (specifically) a 2 pair type hand fold, the bad regs are not willing to fold those hands in BvsB vs another reg. (however he is a good, which makes b3b slightly better)

2) if i b3b river, i think it is mandatory for me to shove instead of raising to whatever amount. i am simply risking too much on a play which might not even be +ev.

i probably wouldn't hv made this play vs anyone else but him and a couple other regs.

Now, another side question do we really have to make high variance plays like this to make a decent clip at 400NL? What about 1000NL? 5000NL? becoz i often see great players like gilfond talking about being creative and think outside the box