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Old 03-01-2010, 11:53 AM
Godfather
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,389
Default calling vs. raising on wet board textures

Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $400.80
Hero (BTN): $400.00
SB: $408.60
BB: $400.00
UTG: $324.15

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with J T
UTG calls $4, CO raises to $18, Hero calls $18, 3 folds

Flop: ($46.00) 3 T 4 (2 players)
CO bets $34

Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $167.00
BB: $400.00
UTG: $406.00
MP: $425.15
CO: $639.55
Hero (BTN): $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BTN with T T
UTG raises to $14, 2 folds, Hero calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($34.00) 3 8 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $24

2 different hands vs. fairly good aggressive lag players. Assuming that they are good enough to know that my flatting range is "capped" on these boards and they will probably adjust their barreling ranges well, would it be optimal to develop a more aggressive dynamic by raising these flops in position with a more of a merged range which also allows my bluff frequency to increase, or should i be polarizing my raising range on these flops.

In hand 1, i am curious as to your line with non paired strong flush draws (KQ/KJ/QJ/Ax) and with top pair hands that do not have a flush draw (i.e. ATo here)
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:38 PM
steel108's Avatar
mexican
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 882
Default Re: calling vs. raising on wet board textures

Hand 1:

Your range isn't capped (or at least it shouldn't be). I will call w TT, 33, 44 on this board some of the time though I do raise more often though. With the NFD is really depends on villan whether I like raising on the flop. Some villans will auto ship a smaller flush draw here and we would obviously love to get the money in. If I had like QJdd, AJdd here I would prefer calling.... If the turn is 8d or something that gives up more equity, I can jam over a double barrel. I'll have sets in my range some percentage of the time as well and is the reason why I slowplay sets on this board every once in awhile. With a hand like A5dd, JTdd I prefer just raising this flop. Our equity is too good and villan will get the money in bad.

Hand 2:
I usually just call with TT here. If we raise, what are we accomplishing? If he re-raises, we are in a shitty spot. He could have a flush draw and folding would be a huge mistake.... he could have an overpair and getting it in would be a huge mistake. I think we are isolating the top of villan's range by raising this flop with the middle of our range.

I do like the idea of raising here with the middle of our range so we won't always have the extreme ends of our range in this spot, but I find it's hard to put into practice. However, since most people won't play back light on these flops 836ss, raising the middle of our range could be a nice way to get people to spew. But once again, I just have no clue how to incorporate that into my game.
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:54 PM
Video Producer / Poker Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Default Re: calling vs. raising on wet board textures

These spots are going to usually be pretty opponent/history specific. That said, if you are concerned about capping your range on these flops then just mix in flatting it with sets and overpairs.

Hand 1 I like to flat a lot in position. The issue with raise/calling a lot is that the more aggro dynamic you have the more likely you just get it in as a flip vs KT, Qxdd type hands. ATo I raise sometimes with a bit of an aggro dynamic and vs a wide co open. Strong non-paired flush draws (non-Axdd) are a pretty easy flat on that board with overcards and a backdoor straightdraw. I'd raise Axdd sometimes since he could flat my raise or 3bet it with worse flush draws/straightdraws.

Hand 2 i'd basically always flat vs anyone with a reasonable utg range since I don't expect him to stackoff with 99 or 8x that often here and you get it in crushed a ton. I'd be way more inclined to raise this hand when villain is opening a ton of hands, like sb vs bb or button vs blinds.
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:58 AM
Video Producer / Poker Coach
 
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Default Re: calling vs. raising on wet board textures

1) Really hard to misplay this hand. From a GTO perspective I don't think what we do with this hand matters much, so a mixed strategy based on reads/gamefow is just fine. Some things to think about:

- He (should) cbet tons of air on this board
- Board is bad for our PF range
- We want to fight for our share of pots on this flop. Stuff like KQo I want to bluff raise v often, because it's the most likely way I can win the pot with that kind of hand.
- He's planning to bet/fold hands like 55/A-high often. He might play back with 5 out hands like 45s but that's a small part of his range on this board texture

Thus raising hands like this is good for protecting our bluff range. It's also good because we dominate many of his draws, and it can't be a mistake to pump the pot with equity

Nut FD pretty much always raise, K-Q high FDs I'll mix it up. Those to have better and more pair outs since he bluffs Q/K more often than low cards with the Axs hands.

2) He's UTG => tighter opening range. Board is more coordinated and hits his SC hands that are more likely than just overcard hands like the CO/Btn situation. Raising here with TT is mainly for protection because of sticky turn cards, but we get it in crushed or flipping too often for me to like it. I'm still bluff raising this texture, but much less often than situation 1. Def want to still raise our big flush draws to put pressure on his marginal 1 pair hands, gutters etc.
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Old 03-06-2010, 07:21 AM
Capo
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 250
Default Re: calling vs. raising on wet board textures

H1 - I like a raise cuz our equty is so nice with the pair and we dominate lower fd's and if we hit a T or a flush we might not get paid off enough anyway.

H2 - a raise might be fine if you flatted vs a LP open, but vs an UTG open I really hate a raise on the flop unless you have been raising his cbets like 4 or 5 times during the session so far
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:56 PM
Don
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 668
Blog Entries: 69
Default Re: calling vs. raising on wet board textures

H1- Id rather raise if you arent comfortable calling down 3brls. I dont know hte frequency, but ther can be some overcard-overcard runout, or some runout where u think ur hand isnt good by the river/think hes not bluffing ever. If you get it in on the flop, have have good equity vs pretty much everything/ he can get it in bad.

H2 id rather flat since ull have stronger hands to raise get it in vs. his UTG range. If u get tens in here on the flop, i'd argue ur gonna get smoker by his range, and also consider the fact he isnt flatting oop worse hands really, and theres no point to be bluffin with TT.
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