River chk-raise

[natarish]

During live 2-5 NL cash game. (9 handed: Full Ring)

Villian is very very trappy and slow plays his big hands. Plays almost over half of the deck. Villian limp called my raise with 74o, earlier. I was unable to make any money of him so far and it was really started to get to me, when this hand came up.

Player 1: (MP1) 300
Hero: (MP2) 580
Villian: (button) 750

HERO: Kc9c

Player 1 limped for $5 and i raised to $25, villian on the button called and so did Player 1.

FLOP: Qs Tc 9d

Player 1 checked, Hero Checked, Villian bets $40 into $75, Player 1 FOLDS, Hero calls $40.

TURN: Qc

Hero donks for $90 into $155 pot, Villian instant calls. Villian didnt raise me, instead call.

River: 2h

Hero Checks, Villian thinks and bets $170 into $330 and Hero Goes ALL-IN for $450. Villian tanks for almost 5 minutes and calls.

If villian folds out JJ, TX+draw hands on the turn, due to turn pairing up. Then if i check-raise him on the river, does he has any bluffs or weak holdings that would fold to my chk-raise. After going over the hand i realize it was huge mistake to choose this board to apply chk-raise.

ANy help with what kind ov boards to chk-raise river on?

[luckychewy]

excluding preflop none of the actions you took have a reasonable explanation for them when combined with what the subsequent actions imply. basically, on the flop if youre trying to induce a bluff by check calling, then betting turn and cshoving river dont make any sense. you ask if villain will fold any bluffs on the river, he probably will but you beat those so calling would be better. and generally no, people won't bet with tx here to fold to a raise which would fall under the category of 'weak holding'.

to address your last concern of what types of board cr riv works on, my advice would be to not think about it like that. try to allow the situations to come to you and know that its something you are capable of. trying to do it just because you know you can will result in spew, like this.

happy holidays

[natarish]

merry Xmas to you as well, means alot when advise comes from you.

i understand, i let my emotions take the best of me and started doing weird stuff on turn and basically on river. Once he called my turn donk, i decided to give up on the hand, however, he just called my turn bet and didnt raise me, so i went for chk-raise becuz i sensed he has weak holdings.

Hoewever, you are saying K9 is ahead of his bluff range and i can bluff catch with K9. Then what about:

if i hold AJ or 78.

[JamesMa]

I normally wouldnt check call K9 there multiway just going to get u into way too many bad spots especially with their range being so wide, you'd need to know their barreling frequencies pretty well... I think starting by betting probably turns you a profit much easier

[natarish]

most of his semi bluff range has pair to go with it, which is good enough for showdown if draw misses. he never floats the turn.

So i had crazy time assigning him a bluffing range after the hand was over.

[luckychewy]

aj could be ahead of some bluffs and 78 almost certainly isn't though you seem to be grasping at nothing because it would appear to be rather difficult for villain to be bluffing in this situation to begin with, not to mention the fact that you just said he never floats the turn in which case what can you even expect him to fold on the river? i think it would be beneficial for you to work on distinguishing what types of hands fall into what types of categories because tx is getting checked back here from almost all villains, and not getting bluffed with.

i think the hand would make more sense if you had set out to fold a qx hand/straight(same value assuming you're repping a boat) though it's a risky move and almost certainly won't work at least you would have a clear cut plan of what you're trying to accomplish and have been aware of what villains most likely hand is.

[natarish]

My image is just not that nutty. i usually have laggy aggro image and i know i will always get looked up by trips/straight when i chk-raise river tryin to rep boat. especially when his bluffing range is super narrow on river.

for example: T97r T 2 board type.
If villian folds out all draws (non pair) hands on turn once top pair on turn pairs up. He doesnt have many bluffs once he bet the river.

i guess: boards where top pair, pairs up and villian gives up his semibluff hands on turn, i should never chk-raise the river as a bluff because villian will call more than 50%.

Further, i beleive turn donking is great if villian is gonna give up on all overcards, all draws (pair, nonpair), all floats and only continues with trips or better.

[luckychewy]

Originally Posted by natarish

i guess: boards where top pair, pairs up and villian gives up his semibluff hands on turn, i should never chk-raise the river as a bluff because villian will call more than 50%.

Further, i beleive turn donking is great if villian is gonna give up on all overcards, all draws (pair, nonpair), all floats and only continues with trips or better.

riv cr doesn't need to even work 50% in this case cause you're risking 450 to win 500

folding out weak draws which might bluff on one of the next two streets when you have a pair and a fd seems ill advised, which brings me to my next point...Yeah-well-you-know-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man.jpg

[natarish]

thanks lucky. your link wont open.

[luckychewy]

it was a sarcastic picture which didn't post unfortunately, nothing important though :P