[50NL] 3b w J9o in a interesting spot :)

[vanoff]

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($63.45) ------> 52/19/1.23(73)
BTN ($49.25)
SB ($21.90)
Hero ($51.60)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 4 players) Hero is BB J 9
CO calls $0.50, BTN raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6.50, CO raises to $11, BTN folds, Hero calls $4.50

Flop: 8 K T ($24.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $10, $10 to Hero ($40.6)?


This is just too small of a 4b, so I call. A mistake so far is me not raising enough PF to make it a nice re-steal.
Knowing that he probably connected, is it still profitable to push/call/fold, why?

Your 3bet is bad my friend. Against a fish like that we should be 3betting for value only oop and largely in position too. You widen your value range so that when he calls, which he will do often, your hand will dominate his calling range allowing you to stack him.

The 4bet, which despite the small raise, is a fold because you have such a marginal hand that will only get you into trouble post flop. Once you call the 4bet, you are pretty committed to any top pairs of straight draws because you have put so much in pf. Either way, if you check you are craing and if you bet you are getting it in to a raise. The question is which has more fold equity. If you check there is some hope that the K is a scare card and he checks behind or even bets small.... in which case you could conceivably check calll.

[Macio]

i think this guy is too pasive for a 4 bet with air. So even though he have a donkish stats he is preaty passive and when guy with AF 1.2 four bets you you know he is holding AA or KK. I think hes small bet on the flop is to induce a shove with KK but i might be wrong.
As to what you have to do ? now you have the right odds to call to hit your stright draw so calling here is fine but i think you have zero fold equity so shoving here will not fold anything in his 4 bet range.

[vanoff]

Good thinking Macio. In that very moment I didn't feel that he'd fold either.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...g-spot-340418/

Some more interesting responses in the link above. Like:

Originally Posted by FloppinPairs

FWIW this is definitely not a stupid question that has to be lolled at. And I suspect a call may be bad given that we are very unlikely to see two cards for our $10 call.

Looking at a shove;

If we put him on QQ+ and AK

We have 29.7% equity, pot is 34.25, and our shove risks 40.6. We need him to fold to the shove 15.6% of the time to be 0ev.

We are putting him on 21 combos of hands, so we would need him to fold 3 combos to be 0ev. Basically a shove would be +ev if you think he would fold QQ half of the time here.

If you think he never has AK here since he would probably 4bet bigger than min. Then you need him to fold QQ half the time.

If you think he can have JJ here as well then he ony needs to fold JJ two thirds of the time, for the call to be +ev (assuming he calls everything better lol).

Overall I think a shove is going to be marginally +ev, if you think he 4bets QQ, if you think he ever does this as a bluff which I doubt then it will be +ev for sure.


Working out the ev of a call is a little more difficult (I can't be bothered right now). However i suspect it would be bad, running some quick estimates it looks pretty close even if he pays you off 100% of the time when you hit.

That said my gut was telling me he had AA, in that case I'm getting more than 3-to-1 pot odds (about 25%) and I'll hit my straight about 32%, I'm actually getting immediate pot odds to call this.. let alone the implied odds.

Flop: 8 K T ($24.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $10, Hero goes all-in $40.60, CO calls $30.60

Turn: 2 ($105.45, 2 players)

River: 7 ($105.45, 2 players)

Final Pot: $105.45

CO shows: A A
Hero shows: J 9

Hero wins $103.45 ( won +$51.85 )
CO lost -$51.60
BTN lost -$2.00



Bad play by me

[Cristina_M]

Just showing us a favorable outcome does not mean that you played the hand well. First of all you 3bet way too small preflop, and most importantly you did it OOP, which is a huge mistake considering your hand is too marginal for such a move. Just think about it: villain 3bets 1.23, which is such a tiny range..that means that he only 4bets with premium, so calling his 4bet is W-R-O-N-G, let alone your 3bet Compared to his range of 4betting your equity is about 26.9% preflop and raises to 31.3 on the flop, which barely is a situation where you should be happy to shove.
IMO, you should only elect to 3bet like that IN POSITION and against nittier players. GL !

[Fuzzy Logic]

LOL at a 52/19 4 betting 21 combos ever. This is at most 9 combos (considering K on the flop) and he folds zero percent of the time. He is a station, treat him as such and stop this FPS. As played I still fold as you are never going to find a profitable way to play this hand with that size pot considering preflop and his donk on the flop.

[Probability]

I call the flop.