**Official μNL stats thread**

[Birchinio]

I've realised that I have a really powerful tool and I'm really not using it enough to trace my leaks. I rarely go over my hand samples and check where I'm constantly burning money and I think it's a leak in itself which is stopping me improving as much as I should.

I'm a typial tag fish. Over the last 100k hands or so of 50nl I have I am running at about 3.4BB/100 but I still think I suck and have a lot of leaks. Like a lot of players my redline is terrible, which I've always just ignored. But I think I need to improve my non sd winnings if I'm ever to moveup past 100nl. I'm not saying that I want a grogheadflow redline, but I think if currently my non sd winnings are like -30bb/100 or whatever if I could slash that to -15bb/100 it would really help my game.

The first thing I noticed checking over my 50nl hands is where I'm losing the most money. This is my graph WITHOUT BLINDS. With blinds filtered in it's a different story obviously, I'm just wondering whether everyone has pretty much the same problem or if this is a huge leak for me specifically?



Now obviously most people (Or all?) will be losing from the blinds at these limits, but I think maybe I'm losing far too much. From every other position I make money apart from UTG where I am roughly breakeven. Below is my money won from each position:



I'm not sure if the problem is my terrible winrate from the blinds, or that my winrate from other positions is just not high enough to compensate.

[mrt801]

Originally Posted by Birchinio

I've realised that I have a really powerful tool and I'm really not using it enough to trace my leaks. I rarely go over my hand samples and check where I'm constantly burning money and I think it's a leak in itself which is stopping me improving as much as I should.

I'm a typial tag fish. Over the last 100k hands or so of 50nl I have I am running at about 3.4BB/100 but I still think I suck and have a lot of leaks. Like a lot of players my redline is terrible, which I've always just ignored. But I think I need to improve my non sd winnings if I'm ever to moveup past 100nl. I'm not saying that I want a grogheadflow redline, but I think if currently my non sd winnings are like -30bb/100 or whatever if I could slash that to -15bb/100 it would really help my game.

The first thing I noticed checking over my 50nl hands is where I'm losing the most money. This is my graph WITHOUT BLINDS. With blinds filtered in it's a different story obviously, I'm just wondering whether everyone has pretty much the same problem or if this is a huge leak for me specifically?



Now obviously most people (Or all?) will be losing from the blinds at these limits, but I think maybe I'm losing far too much. From every other position I make money apart from UTG where I am roughly breakeven. Below is my money won from each position:



I'm not sure if the problem is my terrible winrate from the blinds, or that my winrate from other positions is just not high enough to compensate.

Imo it's really really really hard to win money from the blinds. My winnings look the same position-wise. I think the fact that your non-sd winnings are -30bb/100 is far more of a leak than your play from the blinds. I had the same problem 2/3 years ago: a solid blue line but a declining redline. You should look for a breakeven red, although I don't know if that is totally possible at 50nl. In the without blinds graph your blueline should be your redline and vice versa (again, not sure if totally applies to 50nl but you get the point). A few things that helped me:

- Get out of the auto pilot game. Not playing the same 4/6/8 tables, go on autopilot for a few hours and see you've won a marginal amount. Analyze each decision! For me it helped to close all other applications when playing. I could play 6 tables, chat on msn and watch a movie at the same time. In other words: focus.
- Look for 'standard' hands where you raise PF, cbet and give up after called. Could you be barreling? should you check flop and go for a delayed cbet? Could villain call you if you raise his riverbet? Things like that.
- Think streets ahead. Not c/c a mediocre hand OOP vs an agressive player if your gonna fold on later streets. Think at every turncall "what am I going to do if he bets the river". If the answer is 'fold', really consider folding turn to save money. Same for the other way around. When he calls your cbet, 'can het also call a turn and river bet'. If the answer is 'no', consider firing turn and/or river.

Can you show me flop/turn/river agression frequency stats?
Hope this helps you a bit.

@RedJoker: really impressed by your comments on people's stats. Do you also comment on stats above micro stakes? I'm playing 2/4 up to 10/20 and would appreciate a competent player like you to have a critical look.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by Birchinio

I've realised that I have a really powerful tool and I'm really not using it enough to trace my leaks. I rarely go over my hand samples and check where I'm constantly burning money and I think it's a leak in itself which is stopping me improving as much as I should.

I'm a typial tag fish. Over the last 100k hands or so of 50nl I have I am running at about 3.4BB/100 but I still think I suck and have a lot of leaks. Like a lot of players my redline is terrible, which I've always just ignored. But I think I need to improve my non sd winnings if I'm ever to moveup past 100nl. I'm not saying that I want a grogheadflow redline, but I think if currently my non sd winnings are like -30bb/100 or whatever if I could slash that to -15bb/100 it would really help my game.

The first thing I noticed checking over my 50nl hands is where I'm losing the most money. This is my graph WITHOUT BLINDS. With blinds filtered in it's a different story obviously, I'm just wondering whether everyone has pretty much the same problem or if this is a huge leak for me specifically?



Now obviously most people (Or all?) will be losing from the blinds at these limits, but I think maybe I'm losing far too much. From every other position I make money apart from UTG where I am roughly breakeven. Below is my money won from each position:



I'm not sure if the problem is my terrible winrate from the blinds, or that my winrate from other positions is just not high enough to compensate.

Hey Birchinio,

Yes, HEM is a very powerful tool but you need to be extremely careful when applying filters, it's very common for people to apply filters and come to incorrect conclusions because they've misinterpretted the results. For example, you've posted a graph of non blind positions where you have a positive red line, seen that you're only losing from the blinds and concluded that the blinds must be where your problem is. However, it may not necessarily be the problem at all. It could be, it might not or it might be both blind and non-blind play. The only way for this filter to be any use is to compare it with other player's graphs and winrates at your stakes, but even that can be misleading.

There was a decent post about red line here. I disagree with some of it and so you won't be trying to guess what those parts are:

- Most people fold the blinds too much and it's a leak. For most micro stakes players this is fine since they'll frequently lose more trying to defend light.

- His hole card winning report is hugely flawed for the reasons I mentioned above. Firstly there's far too much variance for this report to be accurate. Instead of folding the hands preflop he could have improved his postflop play instead. Taking hands out of your range can have adverse effects on the rest of your range.

- Calling 3bet paragraph is flawed for the same reasons.

- Light 3betting from the blinds section. This is far more important when you're IP.


On your stats, preflop you're playing the same ranges from UTG -> CO, there's less players to act when you're in the CO so you should be able to open significantly more from there. Your UTG range is on the loose side and your CO range is on the tight side, aim to play more hands IP.

Your 3bet% is higher from the BTN then it is from the blinds which is great, you should be able to push this higher though.

Your W$WSF from the blinds is very low which tells me you're not picking up enough limped pots. Look for more spots to bet out and pick up dead money. Any time the board is dry or you have some equity you should be considering a steal.

Your flop cbet% and turn cbet% both look solid.

Your winrate is solid over a decent sample so I wouldn't bother getting hung up on red line, there's a good chance your red line doesn't indicate any significant leaks at all.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by mrt801

Imo it's really really really hard to win money from the blinds. My winnings look the same position-wise. I think the fact that your non-sd winnings are -30bb/100 is far more of a leak than your play from the blinds. I had the same problem 2/3 years ago: a solid blue line but a declining redline. You should look for a breakeven red, although I don't know if that is totally possible at 50nl. In the without blinds graph your blueline should be your redline and vice versa (again, not sure if totally applies to 50nl but you get the point). A few things that helped me:

- Get out of the auto pilot game. Not playing the same 4/6/8 tables, go on autopilot for a few hours and see you've won a marginal amount. Analyze each decision! For me it helped to close all other applications when playing. I could play 6 tables, chat on msn and watch a movie at the same time. In other words: focus.
- Look for 'standard' hands where you raise PF, cbet and give up after called. Could you be barreling? should you check flop and go for a delayed cbet? Could villain call you if you raise his riverbet? Things like that.
- Think streets ahead. Not c/c a mediocre hand OOP vs an agressive player if your gonna fold on later streets. Think at every turncall "what am I going to do if he bets the river". If the answer is 'fold', really consider folding turn to save money. Same for the other way around. When he calls your cbet, 'can het also call a turn and river bet'. If the answer is 'no', consider firing turn and/or river.

Can you show me flop/turn/river agression frequency stats?
Hope this helps you a bit.

@RedJoker: really impressed by your comments on people's stats. Do you also comment on stats above micro stakes? I'm playing 2/4 up to 10/20 and would appreciate a competent player like you to have a critical look.

Thanks. Sure, that's no problem, I've commented on small and mid stakes player's stats before.

[Birchinio]

Thanks very much for the reply Red, I wasn't certain on how to judge the filtered results and you cleared it up well for me thanks.

[mrt801]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

Thanks. Sure, that's no problem, I've commented on small and mid stakes player's stats before.

Ok thanks. Really trying to move up the next months so here it is:


Graph is pretty useless I guess since it's pretty good.

Have some ideas myself of what could be possible leaks (squeeze and 3bet might be too low) but was just wondering what your first thoughts were.

Thanks a bunch!
Maarten

PS: agree that graph without blinds of birchinio is misleading and don't really know the 50NL play anymore. Just wanted to point out that my problem when playing those stakes were at the non-sd winnings and I think there are some indications that birchinio has the same problem. I think a -30bb/100 redline is def improvable (for example, the low W$WSF from the blinds as you mentioned). Again, could be because I don't know the 50NL game enough.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by mrt801

Ok thanks. Really trying to move up the next months so here it is:


Graph is pretty useless I guess since it's pretty good.

Have some ideas myself of what could be possible leaks (squeeze and 3bet might be too low) but was just wondering what your first thoughts were.

Thanks a bunch!
Maarten

PS: agree that graph without blinds of birchinio is misleading and don't really know the 50NL play anymore. Just wanted to point out that my problem when playing those stakes were at the non-sd winnings and I think there are some indications that birchinio has the same problem. I think a -30bb/100 redline is def improvable (for example, the low W$WSF from the blinds as you mentioned). Again, could be because I don't know the 50NL game enough.

These look solid overall. You could probably steal more otb. Be careful that you don't get carried away stealing from the SB, you're at a huge disadvantage and a competent BB can really do damage if you get out of line at all. Of course, if players aren't defending their blinds enough it's extremely important to take adavantage of them.

Your 3betting from the blinds is fine but you could really push it up from LP. 3betting when IP is hugely profitable because players are forced to defend a much tighter range than when they have position.

Your W$WSF and Agg from the blinds is on the low side. You're going to end up in relatively less limped pots compared to micro stakes games but it's still important to play them aggressively and pick up dead money when you can.

Your cbetting stats look good and it looks like you coldcall a decent amount in position and not a lot from the blinds, which is fine. There's nothing in your stats to indicate you don't do this but I think it's worth mentioning anyway; when you do call make sure you play back a lot postflop and look for opportunites to steal the pot.

[Birchinio]

Originally Posted by mrt801

Ok thanks. Really trying to move up the next months so here it is:


Graph is pretty useless I guess since it's pretty good.

Have some ideas myself of what could be possible leaks (squeeze and 3bet might be too low) but was just wondering what your first thoughts were.

Thanks a bunch!
Maarten

PS: agree that graph without blinds of birchinio is misleading and don't really know the 50NL play anymore. Just wanted to point out that my problem when playing those stakes were at the non-sd winnings and I think there are some indications that birchinio has the same problem. I think a -30bb/100 redline is def improvable (for example, the low W$WSF from the blinds as you mentioned). Again, could be because I don't know the 50NL game enough.

Yeah I posted here because I didn't know how to interpret it. Now I know it's meaningless but I have also realised my blind play prob isn't the problem because my winrate isn't as bas as I first thought.

I think my non sd is my biggest leak, not that I want it to be super sick or even like yours I just want it to be slightly better.

I'm not really sure of my problem, I know my WWSF is low and like Red said especially from the blinds but I do try and lead pots and take down dry flops where I have some sort of equity. I do pretty well choosing spots to squeeze so I'm not sure why it's so terrible. Actually saying that my WWSF from the blinds isn't much different from yours? Same in the BB and 3% difference in the sb? Is 3% huge?

At 50nl I just table select to find the droolers so the majority of the time I'm sat with stations who never fold and have WTSD % of like 35-40. So I'm not entirely sure whether it's possible to have a good redline in the games I play.

Obv if I can keep up 3BB/100 I'm not bothered but I've not been doing too well at 100nl lately and my redline has been seriously terrible there so I think I need to work on my game in order to ever moveup.

What did you do to adjust your non sd winnings? Looking at your stats I can't see huge differences to mine, you steal more in the sb and CO, cbet flop is slightly higher but cbet turn is actually lower.. I would have thought that you need a higher turn cbet to have a + redline?

Sick graph btw.

[mrt801]

Originally Posted by Birchinio

Yeah I posted here because I didn't know how to interpret it. Now I know it's meaningless but I have also realised my blind play prob isn't the problem because my winrate isn't as bas as I first thought.

I think my non sd is my biggest leak, not that I want it to be super sick or even like yours I just want it to be slightly better.

I'm not really sure of my problem, I know my WWSF is low and like Red said especially from the blinds but I do try and lead pots and take down dry flops where I have some sort of equity. I do pretty well choosing spots to squeeze so I'm not sure why it's so terrible. Actually saying that my WWSF from the blinds isn't much different from yours? Same in the BB and 3% difference in the sb? Is 3% huge?

I don't think your blindplay is that bad.

Originally Posted by Birchinio

At 50nl I just table select to find the droolers so the majority of the time I'm sat with stations who never fold and have WTSD % of like 35-40. So I'm not entirely sure whether it's possible to have a good redline in the games I play.

Agree. Like I said, I don't know the 50nl game that well. I do think, however, that -30bb/100 is def improvable.

Originally Posted by Birchinio

What did you do to adjust your non sd winnings? Looking at your stats I can't see huge differences to mine, you steal more in the sb and CO, cbet flop is slightly higher but cbet turn is actually lower.. I would have thought that you need a higher turn cbet to have a + redline?

The things I mentioned: getting out of autopilot mode (really analyze your opponents range. If he has a TPGK at best, consider overbetting?) and thinking streets ahead (also in betsizing, if I bet x on the turn, how much do me and villain have left on the river). It might help to compare your F/T/R aggression frequencies to mine.

Originally Posted by Birchinio

Sick graph btw.

tnx

[mrt801]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

These look solid overall. You could probably steal more otb. Be careful that you don't get carried away stealing from the SB, you're at a huge disadvantage and a competent BB can really do damage if you get out of line at all. Of course, if players aren't defending their blinds enough it's extremely important to take adavantage of them.

Your 3betting from the blinds is fine but you could really push it up from LP. 3betting when IP is hugely profitable because players are forced to defend a much tighter range than when they have position.

Your W$WSF and Agg from the blinds is on the low side. You're going to end up in relatively less limped pots compared to micro stakes games but it's still important to play them aggressively and pick up dead money when you can.

Your cbetting stats look good and it looks like you coldcall a decent amount in position and not a lot from the blinds, which is fine. There's nothing in your stats to indicate you don't do this but I think it's worth mentioning anyway; when you do call make sure you play back a lot postflop and look for opportunites to steal the pot.

Yeah pretty much confirmed the ideas I had myself. Useful to hear it from someone else though. Thanks!