**Official μNL stats thread**

[Maximus13]

Well Red,
I think you hit the nail on the head some how I lost my aggression, I just finished my session with like an eighty percent cbet, 16 flop aggression. etc etc. and finished with like a 12/bb100 and I dont really recall catching any big hands and winning any big pots. So I think you are pretty much right agian...lol. Thanks for the input on checking in position, Obviously I try to play the bottom of my opening range from the button and felt like if I am constantly cbetting every flop I am a target to trap. So the idea of checking back with certian hands you dont mind continuing with but dont nessacarily expect a ton value from makes perfect sense. Thanks man...oh just wondering what you think my cold calling range from an aggressive cutoff /button opener.when in the blinds.

What hands am I likely to cold call with on the button? Is it pretty much like my mp opening range. or is it any hand in my button opening range?

All right dude, thanks alot. Hope all is well your way, the wife is getting pissed .. to much poker haha.. Good luck buddy

[Kesky]

Okay, Red Joker, do that thing you do so well. Thanks in advance.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by Maximus13

Well Red,
I think you hit the nail on the head some how I lost my aggression, I just finished my session with like an eighty percent cbet, 16 flop aggression. etc etc. and finished with like a 12/bb100 and I dont really recall catching any big hands and winning any big pots. So I think you are pretty much right agian...lol. Thanks for the input on checking in position, Obviously I try to play the bottom of my opening range from the button and felt like if I am constantly cbetting every flop I am a target to trap. So the idea of checking back with certian hands you dont mind continuing with but dont nessacarily expect a ton value from makes perfect sense. Thanks man...oh just wondering what you think my cold calling range from an aggressive cutoff /button opener.when in the blinds.

What hands am I likely to cold call with on the button? Is it pretty much like my mp opening range. or is it any hand in my button opening range?

All right dude, thanks alot. Hope all is well your way, the wife is getting pissed .. to much poker haha.. Good luck buddy

When you're otb you can coldcall pretty wide, definitely not as much as your opening range from there though.

It depends on the position of the opener as well, against UTG openers things like KJ/AT type hands have very bad reverse implied odds so won't be coldcallable like they would be against a CO opener.

The type of hands I coldcall IP are PPs, suited aces, suited connectors, suited broadway and strong offsuit broadways. It is extremely important that you're playing back light on flops a lot, pay attention to randomization by equity. If you don't you're likely pissing money away by calling with those hands and you'd actually be better off just 3betting or folding.

It's also good to pay attention to recent history. If, for example, you've been raising a lot of flops recently but haven't been 3betting much then you might be better off 3betting a small-mid SC. You'll likely get less respect postflop and these hands require fold equity postflop to play profitably. However, you might also slowplay a big hand in this spot, like AA/KK planning to raise a lot of flops since you expect that to get played back at more than if you 3bet.

OOP I call a lot of the same range against LP openers, although I'd start 3betting the lower SCs. However, it's now even more important that you're comfortable playing postflop and are willing to make a lot of plays. And it's certainly not going to be a mistake if you want to just 3bet or fold most of the weaker range. Against an EP open when I'm in the blinds I'll likely play a good bit tighter, they'll have a stronger range postflop so I can't expect as many folds postflop so things like SCs and suited aces go down in value. As well as that a lot more of the broadway type hands, that likely dominate a LP openers range, will now be dominated far more often when facing an EP open.

Bear in mind that none of that is a requirement to be a winning poker player, there are many solid players that coldcall tight ranges and play very tightly OOP. For a long time (and probably still) the "2+2 mentality" was to play extremely tightly OOP. I, personally, don't agree with it but for players who are just gaining experience and aren't as comfortable postflop it's not a bad strategy to avoid awkward and marginal spots. At least until you have the experience and confidence in your game to open it up a bit.

Originally Posted by Kesky

Okay, Red Joker, do that thing you do so well. Thanks in advance.

Hey Kesky,

Your VPIP/PFR from all positions looks solid, you're stealing a decent amount so that's all very good.

You're 3betting a lot more from the blinds then you are from LP. This is a leak. A lot of people think, and it's not horrible logic, that because LP openers are opening such a wide range that we should punish them by 3betting them light. However, we're actually far, far more concerned with the range they continue with rather than their opening range in the first place. When a player is IP on us they can continue with a much wider range as they have a lot of options open to them. They can 4bet, call and shove a lot of flops, call and raise small, call and float, etc. so they can put us in a lot of awkward spots postflop. However, when they're OOP they're extremely limited, their options are pretty much to 4bet or fold, although there is a small range hands where the best option is to call OOP, that range is much smaller then the range that can be profitably called IP.

So you should start 3betting a lot more when you're IP and particularly otb.

Your CC% is very similar from MP to the BTN which tells me you don't alter that range too much based on the position of the opener. Like I mentioned above, a lot of hands with which it's profitable to coldcall CO openers won't be profitable to coldcall UTG openers. It doesn't look like a huge problem, just something to be mindful of.

Your vs. 3bet fold% is pretty low which tells me you're probably calling 3bets far too light. Most of your opponents won't be 3betting you very light so it's unnecessary to defend light either. Their ranges are too strong and they won't be attacking your opens light enough to cause a problem or warrant playing back at them light.

Your Agg% and W$WSF are pretty low from the blinds which tells me you aren't picking up limped pots enough, that's something you could start to work into your game.

Your flop cbet% is on the low side but not terrible. Your turn cbet% is also low and, combined with the low flop cbet%, tells me you don't double barrel much at all. Not double barrelling as a bluff isn't necessarily a problem at micro stakes but will be as you move up. However, it could mean you're also missing turn value bets which is a far more costly problem at micro stakes.

Your c/r flop % is right on the margin of what I'd call acceptable, you should look for more spots to play back at players light in those spots, particularly if you want to coldcall a wide range.

The last thing is that your WtSD is high and your AFs and Agg% are low. Part of this is caused by not cbetting a wide range and not double barrelling much. However, you might also be calling down too light as well so keep an eye on that.

Perhaps post some hands where you're unsure whether to bet the turn for value or not and also some hands where you're considering calling down. The responses should help give you a better indication of whether or not you have leaks in those areas.

[Kesky]

Thank you so much for the analysis RJ, I'm really grateful for it. I have taken the things you wrote to mind, and will mull over them today, and write a post with some questions and ideas.

Again, really great of you to do this, kudos.

[limbosongs]

Hi RJ

Any chance you can cast your eye over these? Im playing pretty poorly, back playing recently after a long time off and I think im spewing a lot, hopefully you can give me some pointers.

Cheers

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by limbosongs

Hi RJ

Any chance you can cast your eye over these? Im playing pretty poorly, back playing recently after a long time off and I think im spewing a lot, hopefully you can give me some pointers.

Cheers

Hey limbosongs, it doesn't look like you're spewing at all, the opposite in fact.

You've got a very tight style of play. In particular your MP opening range is extremely tight so you could bring that up a few percent pretty comfortably.

Your 3bet% is really low, it looks like you're pretty much never 3betting as a bluff. You need to start mixing in some air hands, start with low SCs. Any time a regular opens and you've got 54s, 65s, 76s or 87s 3bet them.

Your agg% from the blinds is extremely low which tells me you're not picking up limped pots at all.

Your turn cbet% is pretty low. Although you've got a decent flop cbet% your preflop style is very tight so the range you get to the turn with is likely still pretty strong. So it looks like you're missing value bets on the turn and like to go for pot control very frequently. Against weak players this will very frequently cost you a lot of money.

[limbosongs]

Thanks RJ, will start 3betting and getting more aggro on later streets, cheers.

thanks for sorting out teh screenshot.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by limbosongs

Thanks RJ, will start 3betting and getting more aggro on later streets, cheers.

thanks for sorting out teh screenshot.

No trouble.

I'm sure Vitas or Tickner will eventually sort out the forums so that each post is contained separately and wide images won't make the thread blow up. They've got a lot of other bugs to fix at the moment though so I don't think it's a huge priority right now.

[Kesky]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

Hey Kesky,

Your VPIP/PFR from all positions looks solid, you're stealing a decent amount so that's all very good.

You're 3betting a lot more from the blinds then you are from LP. This is a leak. A lot of people think, and it's not horrible logic, that because LP openers are opening such a wide range that we should punish them by 3betting them light. However, we're actually far, far more concerned with the range they continue with rather than their opening range in the first place. When a player is IP on us they can continue with a much wider range as they have a lot of options open to them. They can 4bet, call and shove a lot of flops, call and raise small, call and float, etc. so they can put us in a lot of awkward spots postflop. However, when they're OOP they're extremely limited, their options are pretty much to 4bet or fold, although there is a small range hands where the best option is to call OOP, that range is much smaller then the range that can be profitably called IP.

So you should start 3betting a lot more when you're IP and particularly otb.

Your CC% is very similar from MP to the BTN which tells me you don't alter that range too much based on the position of the opener. Like I mentioned above, a lot of hands with which it's profitable to coldcall CO openers won't be profitable to coldcall UTG openers. It doesn't look like a huge problem, just something to be mindful of.

Your vs. 3bet fold% is pretty low which tells me you're probably calling 3bets far too light. Most of your opponents won't be 3betting you very light so it's unnecessary to defend light either. Their ranges are too strong and they won't be attacking your opens light enough to cause a problem or warrant playing back at them light.

Your Agg% and W$WSF are pretty low from the blinds which tells me you aren't picking up limped pots enough, that's something you could start to work into your game.

Your flop cbet% is on the low side but not terrible. Your turn cbet% is also low and, combined with the low flop cbet%, tells me you don't double barrel much at all. Not double barrelling as a bluff isn't necessarily a problem at micro stakes but will be as you move up. However, it could mean you're also missing turn value bets which is a far more costly problem at micro stakes.

Your c/r flop % is right on the margin of what I'd call acceptable, you should look for more spots to play back at players light in those spots, particularly if you want to coldcall a wide range.

The last thing is that your WtSD is high and your AFs and Agg% are low. Part of this is caused by not cbetting a wide range and not double barrelling much. However, you might also be calling down too light as well so keep an eye on that.

Perhaps post some hands where you're unsure whether to bet the turn for value or not and also some hands where you're considering calling down. The responses should help give you a better indication of whether or not you have leaks in those areas.

About 3betting more ip:

Well, you've basically explained the logic that I've been using, i.e. somebody steals a lot from the button - I 3b from the binds. I haven't been doing much 3betting from the button because the micros are full of people that don't fold to 3bets often enough, and have a tough time folding their hand post flop. All this means I'm much better off having a real hand or hitting something good on the flop. Also, I feel that I can out play basically anybody at these stakes when I have position, so it seems better to keep the pot small pre flop, and jack it up on later streets if needed.

This also leads to the question what types of hands should I 3bet more ip. Obviously premium hands are ok, but I often get confused with other types of hands. 3betting medium pocket pairs seems bad, because they are much more effective for set mining as people don't hand read all that well and will often go broke with top pair good kicker. Suited connectors and one gapers also play better in pots in which the PSR ratio is big, i.e. non 3bet pots.So, I'm left with airy type hands and maybe even hands that have reverse implied odds (KJ, QJ, stuff like that). Hands that have reverse implied odds are ok on micros because people will call a 3b oop with 109s, and lose a lot of money on 10K2 flop.

Basically, I took your advice to heart, started 3btting more ip and lost a fair amount. So, I'd be interested in some further advice about the ranges for 3betting ip.


About my CC% is very similar from MP to the BTN

Wow, definite leak. Never even considered it. Thank you.

About my flop cbet% ibeing on the low side

I try to play a solid style, that would definitely be exploitable on higher stakes, but works well on micros. An integral part of that is trying to keep my c-bet on the smallish side, as there are a lot people that don't fold bottom pair. To get them off it, it's often needed to triple barrel,a nd that becomes a lottery of sorts because they play passively, so you don't know if they have TPTK r bottom pair until the river.

Again, thanks for shedding some light on the errors of my ways

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by Kesky

About 3betting more ip:

Well, you've basically explained the logic that I've been using, i.e. somebody steals a lot from the button - I 3b from the binds. I haven't been doing much 3betting from the button because the micros are full of people that don't fold to 3bets often enough, and have a tough time folding their hand post flop. All this means I'm much better off having a real hand or hitting something good on the flop. Also, I feel that I can out play basically anybody at these stakes when I have position, so it seems better to keep the pot small pre flop, and jack it up on later streets if needed.

This also leads to the question what types of hands should I 3bet more ip. Obviously premium hands are ok, but I often get confused with other types of hands. 3betting medium pocket pairs seems bad, because they are much more effective for set mining as people don't hand read all that well and will often go broke with top pair good kicker. Suited connectors and one gapers also play better in pots in which the PSR ratio is big, i.e. non 3bet pots.So, I'm left with airy type hands and maybe even hands that have reverse implied odds (KJ, QJ, stuff like that). Hands that have reverse implied odds are ok on micros because people will call a 3b oop with 109s, and lose a lot of money on 10K2 flop.

Basically, I took your advice to heart, started 3btting more ip and lost a fair amount. So, I'd be interested in some further advice about the ranges for 3betting ip.

I don't see how having players call your 3bets with weak hands OOP could possibly be a bad thing. That's pretty much the dream situation to be in. However, having somebody call your 3bet light and then continue light when they're IP is a pretty awful situation to be in.


If you're playing well then they shouldn't be folding top pair good kicker even if they can hand read. You should be bluff raising and playing back at them so much that top pair good kicker is an easy continue. If they're capable of folding that strong a hand then bluffing should be hugely profitable unless they have extremely nitty preflop ranges.

I don't 3bet PPs, suited aces or most suited connectors/gappers when I'm in position. The smaller SCs are fine to 3bet when OOP though because they can be pretty awkward to play postflop as the caller, they aren't dominated by most of the range that continues and I'm not going to get attached to the hand if I make a pair.

Hands like KJ/QJ I'm usually calling as well. 3betting any hand IP is never going to be that big a mistake, it's so inherently +EV that it can't be that bad. However, I usually try to avoid using hands that can be profitably coldcalled.

So against regs my 3bet bluffing range IP will usually contain a lot of offsuit connectors/gappers, low suited connectors/gappers that I don't want to coldcall, various suited hands.

Against maniacs I'm not too worried about having balanced ranges so I'm 3betting whenever I feel like it and with a lot of broadway type hands like KQ/AJ/etc. that I wouldn't 3bet against a reg because I'd have to fold to a 4bet. I expect the maniacs to be calling extremely light and not 4betting me as a bluff too frequently, so I just make the most +EV play in a vacuum.

Originally Posted by Kesky

About my flop cbet% ibeing on the low side

I try to play a solid style, that would definitely be exploitable on higher stakes, but works well on micros. An integral part of that is trying to keep my c-bet on the smallish side, as there are a lot people that don't fold bottom pair. To get them off it, it's often needed to triple barrel,a nd that becomes a lottery of sorts because they play passively, so you don't know if they have TPTK r bottom pair until the river.

Again, thanks for shedding some light on the errors of my ways

Having a lower cbet% wouldn't be exploitable at higher stakes, the opposite in fact. A high cbet% would be exploitable at higher stakes. At low stakes players don't play back anywhere near enough and play very fit or fold so having a high cbet% is the best way to exploit them.

Yes, they're continuing when they hit a pair. However, they're not bluff raising you or making plays and they won't hit a pair that often. Board texture is very important in all this, low wet flops should probably be checked back frequently while dry boards are fine to cbet with a wide range.

Anyway, your cbet% isn't bad, it's just towards the lower end. But that's not even necessarily a leak.

I agree that when they've called it's unlikely they're giving up to a double or triple barrel. That's not something you need to start working into your game though.