Re: Raj doesn't like Grog
This video has brought up a lot of heat and discussion on a topic that I've thought about a lot in the past and also had a good debate about with my brother today. I wanted to take the time to lay my thoughts out there on the subject and see what you guys think. Althought I don't think Raj's message was the best he could put forth to be taken seriously I think there are some things I can relate to and agree about in there. But honestly Raj, the more you come off as a random internet troll by blatantly disrespecting Dan the less ppl take your posts seriously. But deep down I know there is some logic and a good argument you are putting forth. Just food for thought. But like I said I'm in agreement at the foundation of your thoughts.
As an enthusiastic Leggo video watcher and member I'll admit that I have looked up every coach's PTR page to see what there "credentials" are and how they are doing in TODAY'S GAME. I am confident a lot of members that are recreational/ micro/ small stakes players have done this and will continue to do so. This also brings up the concern that Raj put forth that "it's a slap in the face to Leggo members paying $300". Althought most players wont admit it because the 2+2, Leggo forums, and popular PTR pages tend to display an illusion that if you arent making 4 or 5 figures monthly in online poker you must be doing something wrong. But to a lot of members $300 isn't just one buy in and they want to know they are getting their money's worth.
That being said members arent stupid and they know these arent the Party Poker days where 3 and 4 betting guaranteed easy money and if you were an adaptable and competent player then you were able to make a hefty profit. Members want to know the coach's they are listening to are able to beat the competition today and are sometimes unsure when they see a coach who won a ton of money in 2007 2008 and have been breaking even ever since. What they really dont want to see are coach's who have Mount Everest graphs that seem to have skyrocketed into the heavens and promised long term poker success only to be met by the infamous PTR "train wreck" badge or something similar and have since been on a never ending ride to losing their bankroll.
This brings up my next point which Raj may have prematurely jumped on and used as the concrete of his argument. Obviously looking at Dan's FT page on PTR it's not great. And looking at his Absolute page it has recently taken some hits as well from a steady eddie type climb to profit. But both Raj and the opponents scream from their lungs "SAMPLE SIZE!!!!" and this is the debate I had with my brother. I'm sure there are tons of 2+2 discussions that are much better than anything I could argue but it will be forever an ongoing debate as to "what is a good sample size in online poker????" 20k hands? Some ppl play that in a day and some ppl play that in a month. 50k... 100k? How many hands does it really take to convince the masses that this player can win and win consistently? I argued with my brother who puts in a lot more volume that 50k should be a good enough sample size. I mean when you compare live to online poker just imagine the time it takes to accumulate 50k hands live. And even online I think people forget how many hands that really is....fifty thousand! When you actually say it it seems like a lot more. But after reflecting for some time I dont think anyone will ever to be able to say what a good sample size because there are so many other factors that come into play. What stakes you play? micros, small, medium, high stakes? What games you play? 6 max, heads up, full ring, NL Hold Em, PL Omaha, etc. And even what site you play on. There are always discussions about where the fish are swimming and where the toughest competition is. The debate could go on forever.
I do like the idea JimmyRare put forth to display the last 150k hands of the coach's maybe on their profile page or something. Instead of just telling members to look up their PTR page. Every coach it seems has Hold Em Manager or Poker Tracker and so would be pretty easy to display monthly or 150k hand results. Whether this is invading a coach's privacy too much is also open to debate.
Members have concerns and coach's have concerns as well. Raj I think you could have been a little better at forming a logical argument than blasting a few coach's but I understand your thoughts. In addition remember, you're not going to have 30 nanonoko coaches here at Leggo that have graphs that seems to ascend into the heaven's of online poker and infinite profit. Coach's experience downswings as well but also go on vacation, try new games, strategies, and have personal lives to live and deal with the complications and growing process. Maybe a coach had a recent death in teh family or broke up with a gf or is getting married in a few months that has been distracting them from their optimal game. These are all factors I'm sure you havent considered before. As a member you are paying for a service but keep in mind that the service is a teaching process and isn't a guaranteed success contract. You said yourself that you disagreed with a lot of lines that Dan took. This I believe is solid proof that at least you are actively thinking about the optimal way to play a hand and you'll recognize that when a similar situation arises when you're playing. Dan and the other Leggo coach's never said "YOU HAVE TO PLAY THIS WAY AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE THIS LINE EVERY SINGLE TIME!". Experiment, evaluate, and judge for yourself what you could have done better or maybe you did take the best line of play This is all part of growing as a poker player and I think you might have taken that for granted in your OP.
Anyways, that's about all I have to say. Let the discussions continue and I just wanted to say thank you to all the Leggo coaches. You don't need to defend yourself when accusations of bad play come out. The viewer has the ability to agree/disagree with your play and grow as a poker player. And we all know that poker is a complex game. It's not like a sport you grew up learning where the coach's said keep playing and you'll eventually get better. Poker involves a lot more thinking and constantly changing factors. I'm reminded of a quote from a Bluff magazine interview where Durrr basically said if it was easy and he could teach all his friends to play like him they would all be millionaires. That isnt the case and success isn't guaranteed but the coach's at Leggo do a great job at giving you all the tips and tools to best reach that success.
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