Do you raise any suited boardways UTG?

[grogheadflow]

I think the whole 'dominated' thing in poker is wayyyyyyy overrated

[Kitsune101]

Originally Posted by grogheadflow

I think the whole 'dominated' thing in poker is wayyyyyyy overrated

Why?

[FabledHero]

Originally Posted by JamesMa

Generally the more aggressive a table is and unwilling to fold, the tighter a range you are going to want to have since you're going to want to make strong pairs that you can value bet since bluffing equity isn't as high. On a table where you're getting frequently 3bet, raised postflop or called down by marginal pairs, it's a lot more difficult to be able to turn a profit by opening something like SCs and gappers from any position.

+1. Generally the biggest factor is how often the players at the table 3 bet because if you open fold you're losing 3 big blinds, if someone calls you in position you'll at worst lose a small amount and ofc you'll likely profit if they call oop, and when you take down the blinds.

[grogheadflow]

Originally Posted by Kitsune101

Why?

Because it assumes the hand goes to showdown. Hands HU on the flop where one of you dominates the other will go to showdown less often as there's only 2 remaining of the shared card. So having the initiative, or the ability to seize the flop initiative is just much more important. Plus, even if you do have say JT VS QJ on a board where you actually both flop top pair, it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the board stays unscary, your opponent is a sick value bettor, and thus a lot of money is going to go in, etc.

I basically never worry about it.

[JamesMa]

I find a lot of the times at showdown when im losing, its to hands that aren't outkicking me and just beating me in other terms so it's I guess a relatively small % of showdowns that having no kicker actually hurts you.

[Yeyeyesok]

Kitsune; I admire you for looking at your stats and questioning the 'standard'.
I think you will get far with this kind of attitude.
Sadly, like most stats in poker. The sample is way wayyyyy too small to induce any conclusions from it. I've played over a million hands and I still don't have a decent opening sample for specific groupings of hands. If you have a feeling that you are uncomfortable oop with suited broadways, which may have led you to investigate these stats in the first place, I would suggest maybe you are cbetting too much/possibly on the wrong boards and therefore it is putting you into awkward spots vs tighter ranges.

I disagree with grogheadflow that dominance is overrated and can be ignored but I understand where he is coming from when he says such a thing. Please note you can still be a decent winner and NOT open suited connectors from early/middle position. You can probably even cut out some suited broadways and still be a good winner but it will definitely put you on the tighter side of pre flop players.

[Sacr1ficialLamb]

I personally don't raise hands like QJs, KJs UTG under normal table conditions. Of course, if there are fish that are calling hands that you dominate it is +EV to raise because when they are dominated and when you make your hand they pay you off and when you don't they will likely fold because they missed.

Under normal table conditions however (with a table of regs let's say), I will be inclined to raise hands that are not easily dominated like suited connectors and suited one gappers. I feel like when I get 3 bet OOP in these scenerios I'm more comfortable playing boards in which I have a straight draw (let's say we have 98ss and the board is TdJs2cand backdoor flush draw, opposed to a board where I have let's say KTs and the board is Kxx. In the former, it allows you to c/c comfortably, and even c/r. In the latter, you're obviously always check calling, because it's idiotic to raise, there's only a few good turn cards, and some really horrible turns...If villain has KQss or KK or AA and the board runs out dry, and he triple barrels us, it's really tough to lay down our hand. In the former hand, we can try to end the hand without showdown, and if we get to showdown and we have air, it's not hard to laydown when we get to the river.

Another reason I do this is because when you open more UTG, you will get less respect, and therefore will get 3bet more often when you have strong PP's (AA,KK,QQ) and AK(s). Obviously there are a lot of times where you will be in position when the blinds 3bet you as well, so you'll be able to play these hands in position with a lot of money in the pot. You'll probably lose long term with these suited connectiors and one gappers, but the money you make with your big hands will make up for it.

It all really depends on table situations. Even if there is a fish to your left who is like 40/20, you have to be wary of squeezers who will make your life miserable when you have these QJs, KJs, KTs, etc hands (although, I might raise KQs from time to time...it's all table conditions a lot though). You have to also factor in stack sizes too, as it is way better to have an implied odds hand let's say 150-200 deep than a straight TPGK or TPTK hand, because you want all of their money and you make big hands with like small pockets and suited connectors, and you don't want to get stacked calling down KJs on J25 9 6.

Maybe I'm completely wrong about this, but it works for me (or worked for me before black friday anyway).

[d2themfi]

Originally Posted by grogheadflow

I think the whole 'dominated' thing in poker is wayyyyyyy overrated

I agree. Don't fold suited suited Broadway's utg in 6max