Three Betting and Deep Stacks

[Zekgb]

Just wondering on how your three betting ranges, frequencies and sizing change when effective stacks are greater than 200BB. If we are normally three betting QQ+/AK and a bunch of connectors/broadways on the button vs a cutoff raise from a standard tag with 100bb stacks, do we keep doing the same thing with 200bb stacks and just make the 3 bet amounts larger? Do we make the same adjustments for 3 bets out of the blinds?

I've gotten myself in some sticky spots recently where I've ended up with a bloated pot trying to figure out if my one pair is good and have a feeling that many of the 3 bets were ill advised given the effective stack sizes.

[Speedlimits]

3betting light becomes much less effective as you get deeper. Most of the effectiveness of 3betting is precisely because of the 100BB stack size. When you are 200BB+ deep you should definitely make some changes to your preflop game. What should they be?

1) Stop 3betting light OOP. Your opponents will be getting ample odds to call IP and outplay/pressure you.

2) You in turn can call 3bets much lighter in position because of your IOs.

3) Your 3bets should be smaller. 3x is a good default amount.

4) IP you can still 3bet with a wide range. I would rather flat sc's IP though as a default.

As a general rule, your 3bet calling range should get progressively wider and your 3bet
betting range should get progressively smaller as the stacks get deeper.

[svinto]

Originally Posted by Speedlimits

3) Your 3bets should be smaller. 3x is a good default amount.

I dont understand the concept behind this idea. I usually like to make my 3bets bigger as the stacks get bigger and thus being able to create a much bigger pot postflop if we would like to do that.

[SeanFraley]

Originally Posted by svinto

I dont understand the concept behind this idea. I usually like to make my 3bets bigger as the stacks get bigger and thus being able to create a much bigger pot postflop if we would like to do that.

The problem here is that as we get deeper, the number of situations where we want a much bigger pot on the flop decrease considerably. With 100BB stacks hands such as high TPTK and overpair hands do well in 3-bet pots since the SPR is such that we can get all of the money in fast enough that RIO and Villain's odds of having flopped two pair/set aren't great enough that we need to account for it. With deeper stacks we face the problem that even after a decent size 3-bet we could still have offered villain implied odds preflop for flopping sets and we also find ourselves on the flop with enough money behind to offer decent implied odds for draws. Also, since we will be more likely to enter 3-bet pots with cards such as suited connectors, we want to make sure that the postflop pot is large enough to make it easier to get villain's chips in on the turn/river when we hit our draws but small enough that we have the implied odds necessary to call to those draws.

[etown]

this threads dying off but hopefully seabeast or rob can lend some insight here
im still quite uncomfortable as well 3 buyins deep against others in a deep agressive three betting game

when it comes to bet sizing pf i like bigger 3 bets in pos. but oop id like to keep it smaller
personally im totally lost when i get deep against more than just one opponent mainly postflop

and not knowing how to properly bet size
if anyone has any good threads on two plus two thatd be appreciated too

[PerDoom]

the main thing i'd try to emphasize is that you should be 3betting less OOP with like AQ, TT hands here since it will be quite difficult to play those deep against good villains. Just 3bet nut type hands and bluffy hands that do ok postflop (suited connectors, one gappers etc).

[jgunnip]

When deep I 3bet light on occasion against wide openers but with a hand like QJs I might elect to 3bet 1/3 of the time and call 2/3rds or something like that. Obv 3betting more in position and calling more OOP since unlike with 100bb stacks the player oop can use his positional advantage more effectively against us deep.

Some players with become very passive or weak postflop when they get deep since they are out of their comfort zone. I know because I still do it sometimes. Against these players I'm probably 3betting oop fairly tight and calling with a wide range and taking the pot away postflop by mixing it up. lead flop and turn, c/c flop lead turn, c/c flop c/r turn, varying my line based on the specific opponent and board texture.

In position I like 3betting more than I would 100 deep since players are less likely to fold after opening when they are deep and our positional advantage is greater since we're deep.

As far as bet sizing goes I just make it pot in position and 1-2 bbs more than pot oop.

[aejones]

i didn't read this whole threa,d but fyi, when deep, do it in position and not oop, ty.

[alexgotay]

I agree with the other posts about not 3betting light out of position.

In position I think is important to 3bet bigger than usual, specially cause a lot of players don't play well in big pots when deep. You can exploit that if you make them play OOP and out of their comfort zone. Usually a player with a low WSD stat can be bullied around a lot more. You will get called preflop more often but I find that they give up a lot postflop.