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Old 07-02-2009, 06:48 PM
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Default Calculating Hand Combos.

Any tips/links of figuring out hand combinations ... the only thing I definitively know is that omaha has 6 combinations of hands.

For instance, for hold'em there are 6 combos of AA preflop, how do you figure out how many combos there are for a particular hand in omaha?

In hold'em, if a flop comes down AK2 and you hold AK there are 5 combos beating you (one combo of AA, one combo of KK and three combos of 22). Can the same sort of math be applied to omaha?

Lastly, is this stuff as important as it is in hold'em, possibly more so?

This stuff might be available is a book somewhere, but it would nice to be available here too.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Calculating Hand Combos.

....not exactly a lot of traffic in this forum is there
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Calculating Hand Combos.

Well there isn't a ton of traffic in the forum, correct.

But the question you asked isn't easy to answer and from my experience with talking on aim about this stuff, most people that could answer the question won't.

There are ways of doing this with some pretty basic calcs. I've talked with some programmers about creating some programs that run calcs similiar to these and from my experience...its pretty easy to create.


Most players that think abuot this stuff generally shoot from the hip on these sort of calcs and the better players just seem to have a better aim.

Evaluating how many combos of AAxx and KKxx there are I guess can't hurt to know but I don't think it helps you out as much as knowing how likely AAxx and KKxx is vs AKxx in your senario.

In your example of AK2 board.

AAxx and KKxx are a total of about 5% of hands in PLO I believe. You'd want to discount 22xx because most 22xx hands arn't playable. And if you raised preflop and got called, you'd probably discount AAxx a bit since most players auto 3bet a very small portion of hands and most of those hands are AAxx.

So for your question, in that senario it wouldn't hurt to know how many hand combos have you beat (AAxx, KKxx and 22xx) assuming we had AKxx.

But you can go so much further with your calcs that knowing AAxx KKxx and 22xx is ~ 7% of hands doesn't get you anywhere.

Again, you'd want to know how often you should discount 22xx since its rarely played. And since AAxx is usually played a certain way, you'd want to add this knowledge to your calcs that would change them a bit.

Instead of asking yourself how many (what %) of combos have me beat here, try to think about your opponents weighted range and then apply combos to that range.

For example.

The player in the CO opens and he opens from that position ~32% of the time.

You flat on the button with AKQ9ds.

Flop is AK2r

He leads for a cbet.

So what sort of range would you put him on and how would you weight it?

Starting from the top for his range:

AAxx
KKxx
22xx
AKxx
A2xx
AQJT
K2xx
Axxx
Kxxx
A345
Air
.
.
.
And on down the list, you can get specific as you want.

Next step would be where you want to apply your combos, but not against all possible PLO holdings, but against the top 32% of hands.

And what you'd find is that he'd play probably 100% of his AAxx and KKxx hands this way. But he'd play like 70% of his AKxx hands the same way as well. But only like 3% of his 22xx hands since a ton of those get folded preflop. And you work your way down the list and find out how often he's likely to show up with these holdings.

What you find is that after doing this you have a really really really accurate idea of where he is at on average. Now it won't be perfect because he might not play exactly to these numbers but because there is sooooooo many different hands in PLO that it won't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

Does that make sense?

I mean you can use combo calcs anyway you want, but if your going to use them, then actually apply them to your situation and not just in a general way. It will help you get better vision on the spot your in and add value to your decision making abilities.

I talked to someone who is writing an ebook that should help a lot with this sort of stuff. I've read a little snipit of it and its rumored to be redic expensive but I guess we'll see. I don't think its out yet but he was planning on releasing it sometime soon I do believe.

Until then, try reading this thread for some pointers on getting started:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25...gories-443523/
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Calculating Hand Combos.

thanks for the great post and also for that link (quality stuff there as well) :-) , can you tip who's ebook it is, anybody I would know?
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:20 AM
Video Producer / Poker Coach
 
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Default Re: Calculating Hand Combos.

I don't know if he wants it out there yet or not. He's a semi regular in the 2p2 PLO forum and I think makes videos for a lesser known training site as well.

I think the pricing on it is going to be like $3,000 or something though. Maybe more.
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