I hate this game and I suck: Part 1

[DODGYKEN]

Ok, please no holding back. I cannot win at PLO. I'm a clever guy. I own NL regularly at medium/high stakes. I don't get it. Please make me suck less.

I'm trying to figure out what my line/thinking should be in certain situations. I don't have a good grasp of ranges or tendencies in PLO yet, and I often find myself having very little idea of what is correct.

So here are two spots where a very aggressive player donks into me. He's playing 81/27/2.1 over 60ish hands. What range of hands does he have to do this in each hand?


Hand 1

$1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($816.90)
Hero ($207.95)
BTN ($393.55)
SB ($87.25)
BB ($474.60)

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is CO T A A K
UTG calls $2, Hero raises to $9, 3 folds, UTG calls $7

Flop: T 5 8 ($21, 2 players)
UTG bets $21, Hero is confused

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hand 2

$1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($942.45)
Hero ($200.00)
BTN ($197.00)
SB ($110.00)
BB ($482.50)

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is CO 8 K K 7
UTG calls $2, Hero raises to $9, 1 fold, SB calls $8, 1 fold, UTG calls $7

Flop: 8 6 2 ($29, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $29, Hero hates PLO

[Unknown Soldier]

1: i dont know, sorry. prob peel vs this guy though he can prob have a wide enough range. Although from my experience plo donks are a lot stronger than nl ones.

2. peel again i guess.

[SEABEAST]

i think in the first one you want to raise or fold, because otherwise you're gonna end up just donating the flop bet too often when the turn comes a scary card, he bets again and you fold

so you need a bit of a read on how donkish he is postflop to know whether you can be comfortable raising, given that if you do you have to put stacks in pretty much

second one is a little diff, i feel like if it was headsup it would be a pretty easy peel but because it's threehanded it's weird, i could see raising small or something to fold out the third guy and rep strength vs the donkbettor to get a better read on what he has (noone rebluffs in PLO and there are no big draws)

i could also see folding it too, meh! such is the beauty of PLO i guess.

[DODGYKEN]

Originally Posted by SEABEAST

such is the beauty of PLO i guess.

This is so far from what I'm feeling about PLO right now.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by DODGYKEN

This is so far from what I'm feeling about PLO right now.

wait til you run hot.

[3-2-1BuStO]

To tell you the truth, until I had a good idea about how this guy plays more than his stats, I would just fold both of these. However, you have 60 hands on him, have they all been at this table? The thing with PLO is that understanding opponents is way more important than in NLHE in marginal situations. Stats usually mean much less postflop, because with 4 cards its hard to be able to put people on a 2 card range no matter how many hands they are playing, and the donks all suck in different ways.

Edit: Hand 2, I misread and I would probably peel or raise small against him, especially with back door spades.

[aejones]

If we're going to pick one to peel, it's definitely 2, right?

[Unknown Soldier]

id say so

[clayton]

both are super easy folds. the fact that he's so loose aggro makes it closer, but really it's just a spot where you have a one pair hand versus a range that does super well against a nut one-pair hand, and you have zero FE.

just run your equity versus reasonable ranges. if they establish a pattern of donking on these boards, then just raise a committing amount with pair+draws and strong draws and slowplay with 2pr+

[MadSci]

It is unlikely that he has top set in the first hand given that we have a T which makes me want to continue with hand vs a giant fish. He got his stack by playing way too many hands way too aggressively. We have reasonable equity vs bare T8xx, something like 40%. I would raise to 63 on that flop and call a shove, not putting up with the donk bet. In addition, I think he could be feeling us out with an overpair on that board or a bare fl dr or an air like hand.
If he flats, I would check behind if the flush hits and def felt any card that helps our range including a 5.
I suppose this might be spewy, but I feel he flats or folds with a lot of hands and we can play future streets well against him.