PLO50: 3rd flush on turn

[fash1k]

Hey! I have only 16 hands with this villain and he is 42\6...

Party, $0.25/$0.50 PL Omaha Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $151.35
UTG: $48.60
CO: $89.80
Hero (BTN): $70.05
SB: $102.80

Pre-Flop: Q T 8 J dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, SB folds, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) 8 9 4 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

I like my check here because I am ip and I can pot control. If I will get one more heart on turn or another bad card, I will have small pot. Also, I think, I will never extract 3 streets of value from J-high flush or lower.. So, if he has flush, I will be paid off on turn & river. I need to protect here from boat-draws but if I will, I will not get value from his bets on turn w/ nothing/flush-draws etc. What will you say about this?

Turn: ($3.75) 3 (2 Players)
BB bets $2.50, Hero raises to $10, BB raises to $30, Hero ?

He is leading and thats what I wanted from him on flop. Here I raised coz I want to protect myself from sets, 2 pairs and K- & A-high flush draws. Also I want to through out all other stuff.
After his 3bet on this turn his value range is A-high & K-high flushes and I don't really think he can 3bet here sets or draws.. As I understood, people prefer to call here sets like a draw to full house. If so, I can easy fold.. Am I right with it?

Thanks for your answers!

[Sc000t]

I like the check behind on the flop. Not that I'm worried about pot control or our hand strength...I just think it helps open up the possibility of getting bluffs and worse made hands to pay off multiple streets either by betting/bluffing themselves or calling bets on the turn and river from us.

The raise on the turn is fine. I might make it a tad lower. Once he 3bets I'd fold.

[Tnoyes]

If I will get one more heart on turn or another bad card, I will have small pot.

Teehee.
Perhaps you should reread the introduction part in your book my man.

The 3 bet is fine *for information, not value*. In that spot, ide flat turn, flat riv in case he has some crazy air. You are never going to be able to raise and get value from worse (bearing a set drawing to boat) If you are so inclined to play large, flat turn, evaluate if you can raise riv. Raising turn kills your action, and sets up real ugly spots (As you see....)

If he flatted turn, whats your river play on a blank?

[Patonius2000]

Don't like checking back the flop/raising turn with anything unless you have a very specific read/plan of action in the vacuum of this one hand. Also if he has naked Ah/Kh he doesn't have a flush draw because you have to play two of the 4 cards in your hand in plo.

[Tnoyes]

Pat, if you dont mind my asking, what is your line on this board Flop/Turn/River, and vs what action on Flop/turn/riv? In other words, if hes check raises flop, whats your line, flats flop, donks turn, etc etc?

[Patonius2000]

Originally Posted by Tnoyes

Pat, if you dont mind my asking, what is your line on this board Flop/Turn/River, and vs what action on Flop/turn/riv? In other words, if hes check raises flop, whats your line, flats flop, donks turn, etc etc?

That's quite a broad question and me answering it properly would involve quite a lengthy analysis of my own ranges and betting fequencies on this kind of board texture, which I'm not going to do. It's also obviously really player dependant I mean sometimes you can bet fold 3rd nuts on the flop (not that I ever do) and sometimes it's an easy bet/call, call call.

To elaborate on why I don't like check flop/raise turn it's basically because the line is incongruent. You said here is the top of my bluff catching range on the flop and then oh noes now I'd better raise the turn because I've got a flush. So you cap your range on the flop then decide it's nutted on the turn and now your ranges are completely messed up. This is very exploitable and as you move up these lines will get you in to a ton of trouble.

[fash1k]

Originally Posted by Tnoyes

Teehee.
Perhaps you should reread the introduction part in your book my man.

The 3 bet is fine *for information, not value*. In that spot, ide flat turn, flat riv in case he has some crazy air. You are never going to be able to raise and get value from worse (bearing a set drawing to boat) If you are so inclined to play large, flat turn, evaluate if you can raise riv. Raising turn kills your action, and sets up real ugly spots (As you see....)

If he flatted turn, whats your river play on a blank?

Mmm, as I explained in first post, this turn raise is not for value or information, I just want to protect myself from better flush draws or fullhouse draws (I'm really beginner in this game but I like this idea in NL because it will make play on river easier and I also think such play can be good in PLO). If I will call it, don't think opponent will bluff bet river, so, I won't get anything more from bluffs but I have the opportunity to protect from draws with raising turn.

He will 100% bet river with boat or when 4th heart will come and what will I do? You propose to call turn & such a terrible river? In this case his river range will look like better flushes or air but nobody knows how often he will bluff such river, so, we can't know is our call their will be good.

If he flatted turn, I will check blank river, coz after turn call his range is: 2 pairs, better flushdraws, maybe some lower made flushes & slowplays. I don't like value betting myself here coz he will call\raise only with slowplays, so, I check

[AKmaert]

He will 100% bet river with boat or when 4th heart will come and what will I do? You propose to call turn & such a terrible river? In this case his river range will look like better flushes or air but nobody knows how often he will bluff such river, so, we can't know is our call their will be good.

If he flatted turn, I will check blank river, coz after turn call his range is: 2 pairs, better flushdraws, maybe some lower made flushes & slowplays. I don't like value betting myself here coz he will call\raise only with slowplays, so, I check

First off if your reasons for raising the turn are protection based why do you not bet the flop and protect there? Secondly you say he can call with better FDs on the turn, but he cant have an FD on the turn as hes either got 2 hearts or not so a 4th heart isnt a concern outside of meaning theres less flush combos he can have.

If your checking the flop here it should be to induce bluffs and call down imo, the line of checking flop and raising turn just doesnt make sense. I would try and explain why but I think partonius explains it far better than I could

[d_walker1883]

Should we be betting these types of flops (monotone) with near 100% frequency since the only hands that can really call any bets are sets and small flushes (not very many combos?) and those should be giving up after a river bet from us? Makes this weighted more towards a flop bet, and keep firing if no pairing?

I'm also another noob just starting out in omaha with only under 2500 hands so maybe my thinking this should be a 3 barrel for balance is suicidal?

Thoughts?

[SPIKYGUY]

i will ship it man! ur still not dead + drawing straights + gs straight fd
why nt?