Does Meta exist in 6-max below 600NL?

[peten2toms]

After reading Probabilities latest blog post and several replies it seems that some believe meta to be non-existant. I am post5ing this in hopes of some explanations and theories. I guess what Meta is is rather important. I dont think I would be the best at explaining it or even sure I know.

I do believe that game dynamics to evolve during the course of a session. If you are on someones left and 3betting them often say twive in 5-6 orbits I am sure yopu will begin to build a dynamic or even if you flat them IP and play back on the flop. Same goes in the opposite if someone continually is to 3bet or flat you. Then based on going to SD wont meta begin to form? Like if you float and fire turn then shut down and show random air now we have meta for the rest of the match correct?

[klink-]

define "metagame"?

it honestly depends on what you think metagame considerations are (i.e. does table image count?)

[Probability]

"Metagame" ruined my game imo. For me, it no longer exists and I am better off for it. People just play to many tables, auto pilot to much, and don't adjust enough for it to matter.

[Isura]

Originally Posted by Probability

"Metagame" ruined my game imo. For me, it no longer exists and I am better off for it. People just play to many tables, auto pilot to much, and don't adjust enough for it to matter.

I agree this is true in mid stakes. Most people are just clicking buttons tbh. It matters at 5/10 somewhat and definitely 10/20+ (where I get owned by masters of metagame!)

[d2themfi]

when u guys refer to "metagame" you are referring to leveling right? Like psychological leveling that causes u to make some explotive adjustment you otherwise would not have made right?

[Student Caine]

I agree that it really does not exist at these stakes and I believe that a lot of players use "metagame" as an excuse to either make plays that they know are probably -EV (such as hero calling with an overpair on a paired, 4 flush board against a passive villain) or to enter into a new level of FPS that for the most part is lost on the villains we face. The reality is that far too many players online are on some sort of autopilot.

There are plenty of examples of overplaying the metagame card - just look at how many times someone posts a hand history and say something like "We had history as I had stolen his blinds 2 out of the last 4 orbits, so I figured he was 3-Betting me light", when in reality there are so many other factors that could/should/would affect villain's likelihood of 3-Betting (how many tables villain is playing, how often villain actually defends, how positionally aware villain really is, etc etc)

[Student Caine]

Originally Posted by d2themfi

when u guys refer to "metagame" you are referring to leveling right? Like psychological leveling that causes u to make some explotive adjustment you otherwise would not have made right?

Man, this is actually a really, really good question. I have been sitting here trying to think of what the answer to this really is.

In the truest definition of the word, metagame is basically anything that you take outside of the current game and use to affect the outcome of that game. But we do that in poker all the time.

I think that in a poker sense, leveling is definitely part of metagame, but I can't say that it is the only component.

A definition I was considering was: "looking beyond the typically most +EV course of action to another typically less +EV course of action and going with the latter as actually being the most +EV based upon some set of information."

The problem that I have with this definition is that the way that we arrive at the above is typically through leveling, so is it not just leveling redefined? And if it is not, I think that this may just be an example of the metagame, not the actual definition.

I really don't know right now...I will try and think on it more...

[LT22]

I played a couple 6max sessions FTP NL200 the other day and I pretty much agree with Matt's blog post. There is not too much "he knew that I knew that he should know x, y, and z." People are in there grinding out as many hands as quickly as they possibly can.

[Reft]

I def agree with Probability, I watch all these aejones videos of 5/10 and 10/20, and sometimes mis-apply concepts to my 100nl 200nl game and get OWNED, like absolutely owned. The minute I stop, play pretty straightforward in my games, I crush them again. I don't think metagame exists at these stakes simply because people play too many tables, the player pool is so much larger, etc.

[JamesMa]

id define metagame as pretty much adjustments you make based on gameflow which I assume exists at all levels and games just to different extents. At some levels ppl just wont be adjusting at all so there will be low levels of metagame involved and other games game flow will factor into a lot of decisions