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09-08-2008, 11:15 AM
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Consigliere
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 228
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Strong 1pr hand vs flop CR and turn follow up
I'm never really to sure what to do with these...
villain is 43/17/3
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ( $410.45)
UTG+1 ( $690.50)
Hero ($370.45)
BTN ( $225.50)
SB ($207.65)
BB ( $340.70)
Pre-flop: ( $3, 6 players) Hero is CO A  A
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, SB calls $6, 1 fold
Flop: J  8  7  ( $16, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, SB raises to $30, Hero calls $18
So I mean, I can't fold aces here ever, standard call I think.
Turn: 5  ( $76, 2 players)
SB bets $40, Hero calls $40
Turn card isn't horrific, he half pots it. Do I beat a lot when I call here? KJ type hands? Maybe like JT? Should possibly just give it up here...
River: 6  ( $156, 2 players)
SB bets $80, Hero folds
I guess I don't like calling turn then folding river really, but by the time I get to the river I'm kind of thinking "what do I really beat that he CR's me on the flop with and fires turn and river on that board? Opinions? 
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09-08-2008, 11:52 AM
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Capo
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Knoxville-TN,WinstonSalem-NC
Posts: 335
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Re: Strong 1pr hand vs flop CR and turn follow up
I hate the river fold, but I understand I think why you did it. Correct me if I am wrong but it was probably "I have a strong hand and I don't think folding the turn is correct, but if he shows further aggression on the river then he must have a hand strong enough to value-bet against my perceived strong range and thus- be beating me." Well that is not an incorrect thought process but I think you really need to concentrate in this spot about what your plan is on the flop, and flop alone. Make a plan and stick to it, feel free to adjust to large changes in the board or bet-sizing, but other than that make up your mind. In your own words on the flop you say you can't fold aces there ever. The turn and the river haven't changed really anything, the only thing changing is the amount of money you are putting in. However, relative to pot-size every call is mathematically obligatory in my opinion due to our villain's perceived range here. He's 43/17, and he could be doing this with AJ, QQ+, a set, 78 and that's all I think. Your equity vs. this range I think mandates you call the river. Beyond that, I would call here because not only is there a good enough chance I am winning to KK (which is honestly what I think he has here), but also this is a great spot to gain significant information. What does he play this way, what hands does he value this much? etc etc. Folding is not terrible, but I also don't think against this opponent it is the best course of action.
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09-08-2008, 01:22 PM
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Capo
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 346
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Re: Strong 1pr hand vs flop CR and turn follow up
Flop raises from guys like this aren't usually that strong so I'd assume that you're far ahead of his flop range here. He's very likely to raise a Jx or TT/8x type hand to find out where he's at, and then fire the turn small because he kinda wants to protect, and he doesn't want to face a large bet. So I like calling the turn. I'd call the river here as well because there's still a good chance he's just making these half pot bets with a top pair hand that doesn't want to face a big bet. There also aren't too many 9s in his range (maybe 99/98/97).
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09-08-2008, 11:07 PM
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Associate
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 46
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Re: Strong 1pr hand vs flop CR and turn follow up
imo calling this turn and then folding this river is pretty bad. are there any rivers you'd call? he can have a lot of top pair hands that's he's willing to bet three streets.
can anyone make a case for shoving the turn here or is that spew? Hands you're behind in his range are T9, 88, 77, 87 and JJ which he probably 3bets. you're ahead of all his Jacks, AJ-J9 and his pair and straight draws (i.e. T8-98, 97 etc.) on the turn and he's lost a lot of his equity that he had on the flop.
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09-09-2008, 07:29 AM
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Consigliere
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 228
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Re: Strong 1pr hand vs flop CR and turn follow up
I think my main problem here in general is not being confident defining villain's flop raising range then later on in the hand getting hazy about what his range is and having to fold. I liked the comments on his flop range, they help me a lot. Looking back on the hand it really does feel like he has something like Jx so I can see how the river fold is bad.
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