mythrilfox - $25 NL Part 2

[mythrilfox]

Video Description: Drew continues to play 4 tables of $25 NL 6-Max on Merge while discussing focusing while playing, planning ahead to improve the red-line, and the importance of adjusting to players.

Video Link: http://www.leggopoker.com/videos/training/1216/

Discuss here!

[jjooeeyy]

Solid vid as usuall. Hope to see more vids from you.

[fuser1986]

Definitely very solid video! I will probably have some questions later on.

[guitarizt]

The TT hand I just c-bet the KQ9tt flop I think it was and treat my hand as a semi-bluff. I think a c-bet alone is profitable and playing the check guess game isn't that much fun readless oop.

One hand I got a lot from was the 64 hand. You were against a fish and cbet and double barreled something like a J92tt and a 4o turn for value and it's a spot where I used to frequently check on autopilot without thinking about his range. I've always had trouble against weekend loose passives and I think I would check turn too much here without really thinking about it too deeply.

[Koerperkarle]

[09:41]Dont you think calling turn and river there is more profitable because I just think most guys bet polarized when you chb and I dont see that much of a valuerange there (also because most bad aggro guys would bomb it (or underbet) with 2pair+) or do you think even his bluffingrange sucks out too much otr by hitting pairs / flushes / straights too much to make calling the turn profitable, because we cant really call the river on most cards?

[21:15]Do you think calling Axs there is also an option because his range is so wide and you might regularly flop something (or he might regularly flop nothing) to float / raise with or do you think his range is too broadway-heavy and generally less polarized (and he folds to 4bets so much without history that it's just way more profitable than squeezing some money out by calling)?
(but I mean does that really change much?, because KJo doesnt really have better equity vs us than T8s and KJo might not even barrel as much as T8s because it flops equity less often (but probably more often some sort of pair which is never folding because it's likely to be top pair))
But do you think it's profitable at all?

(hehe just went further in the video and saw that you talked about it, so nevermind )

[23:29]Does you having the backdoorflushdraw affect your decision to barrel here or do you think it adds enough reverse implied odds because he probably never has too many worse flushes / flush draws in his range for calling on a 3flush turn and we dont get paid off by worse on a 4flush anyway because he'd raise 2pair+ otf / ott and weaker stuff wont call on a 4flush to 3 barrels?

[mythrilfox]

Hey there! Thanks for the response.

Originally Posted by Koerperkarle

[09:41]Dont you think calling turn and river there is more profitable because I just think most guys bet polarized when you chb and I dont see that much of a valuerange there (also because most bad aggro guys would bomb it (or underbet) with 2pair+) or do you think even his bluffingrange sucks out too much otr by hitting pairs / flushes / straights too much to make calling the turn profitable, because we cant really call the river on most cards?

are you sure you got the timestamp on this one right? I'm not sure what hand you're talking about

[21:15]Do you think calling Axs there is also an option because his range is so wide and you might regularly flop something (or he might regularly flop nothing) to float / raise with or do you think his range is too broadway-heavy and generally less polarized (and he folds to 4bets so much without history that it's just way more profitable than squeezing some money out by calling)?
(but I mean does that really change much?, because KJo doesnt really have better equity vs us than T8s and KJo might not even barrel as much as T8s because it flops equity less often (but probably more often some sort of pair which is never folding because it's likely to be top pair))
But do you think it's profitable at all?

(hehe just went further in the video and saw that you talked about it, so nevermind )

Not sure how in depth I went into that in the video, but I'm rarely calling Axs oop at 100bb. It's going to be exceptionally hard to turn a profit doing that without some super specific and exploitable tendencies, like I knew his range was insanely wide and he cbet 100% in 3bet pots while folded all but the top of his range (or something along those lines, you get my point). But if you just look at all the possible boards you get with this hand and what your plan would be on most of them, you'll find yourself c/fing an absurd amount.

KJo is a little better to call OOP since it makes hands that can stack off for 100bb more often than A6s, but again I am largely just 4bet/folding that hand. As you get deeper A6s and T8s hands go up in value since they have more nut hand and semi-bluff potential than KJo.

[23:29]Does you having the backdoorflushdraw affect your decision to barrel here or do you think it adds enough reverse implied odds because he probably never has too many worse flushes / flush draws in his range for calling on a 3flush turn and we dont get paid off by worse on a 4flush anyway because he'd raise 2pair+ otf / ott and weaker stuff wont call on a 4flush to 3 barrels?

in the TT hand? it's a small consideration - you have more equity and block a handful of flush combos, but both those scenarios (esp the BD flush scenario) don't come into play all that often. Also, reverse implied odds aren't a huge concern because it's not like we're getting tied to a T high flush and value-shoving it if we hit (which I think you were saying w/ your last sentence? like, he's not calling KJ no diamond if 4 diamonds come out, which makes value betting that hand not that great). usually we'll just c/f, depending on specific player reads. I don't see us making incorrect folds or betting or calling off a ton of money with the worse hand here very often or ever.

[Koerperkarle]

Thanks for the reply!
and sorry in advance for this one

are you sure you got the timestamp on this one right? I'm not sure what hand you're talking about

Yea, didnt have that one right
I was talking about the AQ hand at [10:00] on table 2,
do you think he's betting enough pairs there (or not enough air) to make you bluffcatch (or dont you think you can ever call the river profitably because even his bluffingrange that might not even be that wide will suck out a lot and he might bet a lot of pairs to protect or for whatever reason?)

KJo is a little better to call OOP since it makes hands that can stack off for 100bb more often than A6s

Kind of related to that:
Do you know any tools to calculate on how many flops you flop this or that like you enter a specific hand like A2s and get "on X% of flops you flop a flush draw", on "x% of flops you flop top pair" and such? (So not only on how many flops you have that amount of equity like propokertools does)?



[38:20]Would you not having the 5 of hearts make this more of a call for you because the chance that you make a mistake vs him is reduced a lot (although you have less equity against top pair hands and stuff, but less reverse implied odds), or would you just chf then all the time if you wanted to eliminate mistakes because you dont know how light he barrels and since even overcards have decent equity (not to mention FDs and made hands) vs you and his range is pretty tight to begin with?

What if he bet halfpot, would that make it a call for you?
Because for me it would, because most guys that cbet halfpot on dryer flops usually have 2 sizes for those -> halfpot with draws/air and thin value and bigger for value and with strong draws so you could just chc the flop and bet any non-heart runouts when he chb the turn (because imo he wont have that many Ax in his range (that's probably the only "thin value" hand that might herocall there imo and would "fit" a halfpot bet)

And another one :
Against the "one and don-ers", would you plan on getting to SD with your pair or try to bluff him off better weak SD-value otr and what betsize would you use (assuming you have no further info)?
because someone could think a 3/4 pot bet doesnt make sense because his range looks weak so you would bet small to get a call, others might think a halfpotbet makes no sense because any strong hand bets big - I always find that very difficult to size bluffs vs weak made hands vs unknowns because I just dont know on which level they are.
(assuming they're not stationy or something)


[41:43] KQs on KQ7rb: Why do you bet so big ott?
Dont you think he cant call (and wont probably) such a bet with almost anything there?
Because imo his range there is probably a lot gutshots, total air-giveups and secondpairtype hands and I dont think you can get too much out of anything of that range there if you bet 6.8.
What do you think about betting halfpot to get some bad calls from ATo, Qx, 99-JJ, because all the rest folds anyway, or do you think you're never getting 2 streets anyway but 1 street a lot from the range I mentioned that betting bigger ott is more profitable?


About flatting with your whole range:
It does make sense that you want to call with this monster to make his barrels less profitable but at the same time you say that you would float a lot also. So, in a way you are balancing, because now your floats and weaker pairs are "protected" by your monster flats in that you can fold those to a 2nd barrel because if he gets too out of line he pays you off too much, but I dunno but this kind of goes against my general approach to poker and I would be happy to fix something this huge in my thought process
Because my line of thinking here goes like this: If we expect him to barrel with draws a lot here and we cant doublefloat (or does him barreling a lot automatically mean we can doublefloat a lot too, because if it were closer ott when we face a barrel he wouldnt be barreling with a weak range?) shouldnt we just never float and only call (maybe down if we expect him to bluff river aswell) with all the pairs we have?


Interesting that the next hand fits this so well
[44:06]I agree that that's any easy valuebet, but dont you think such a size is too big?
Again, this is a size I would make with bluffs, because it gives him worse odds to bluffcatch, we can rep a lot of valuehands (i mean a nonthinking player just sees the big bet and folds and a thinking player knows that we know that he doesnt have a flush) so we shouldnt make it with valuehands also, should we?
Because if we bet the same with our vbets and bluffs we dont really exploit him or maybe better: exploit him less, because if he calls lighter to smaller bets, we dont want to bet small with bluffs, but only for value, because he's clearly unbalanced so we just kind of minimize our EV if we go more in the direction of being balanced

[47:16] Let's say he had bet halfpot otf, how many streets would you plan to be calling on blanks? (I assume you're gonna be folding on diamonds because you dont expect him to have that much total air in his doublebarreling range, or would you think he uses it as a scare card with all his range?)
Or do you think, because you dont know anything about him you would just chc twice, thinking most people dont 3barrel vs checks too much?

[Koerperkarle]

[last hand, sorry for no timestamp] We jam ATs over a 3bet by a ~ 60bb (if I read 25NL stacksizes correctly) shortie that might be tilted, wouldnt it be better to raise to something like 6$, planning on never folding to a shove, because against his valuerange we get it in always anyway and I doubt he's folding something to a smaller 4b that he wouldve called a shove and by doing this you allow him to reship his 56s in his tiltiness?