Sc000t - $200 PLO (Part 1/2)

[Sc000t]

Video Description: In this part 1 of 2 video series Sc000t reviews 4 tables of $200 PLO 6-Max on PokerStars played by DODGYKEN while he critiques DODGYKEN's transition into PLO. Sc000t goes into detail on DODGYKEN's lines and bet sizing.

Video Link: http://www.leggopoker.com/videos/training/387/

Discuss here!

[DODGYKEN]

Thanks for doing this Scott. It's definitely made me aware of some of the leaks I have, but the thing I like is you've made me understand where my thinking is flawed rather than just my play. I also really like the way you record it without having seen the hands before as I think this gives a really honest and unbiased commentary. I think I had the hand histories up on my other screen - sorry about that, it is a little annoying.

[WaterBear]

Great format. Not too many interesting spots though.

@Dodgy: Please remember to bring up HHs so Scott and the viewers can get an impression of what is going on.

[the fox is bak jak]

never played omaha for cash,so it was just interesting to watch.

[Sean]

Good vid.

[Tnoyes]

At 47:20, Dodgy is playing a 3578 double suited, and raises from early position. Player to his left 3 bets, and a blind overcalls. As you said, we have a fairly good sense of what the player to our left has, but the blind is unknown. Your argument is that we can know what flops we like vs what we dont like vs. the person to our left, but not against the person in the blind. In the situation, we will have relative position. Assuming it goes check check, we have the luxury or acting after mr. AAxx bets, and the player in the blind should be playing his hand straight forward, which pretty much gives us position. Hes also getting a very good price preflop. Im not suggesting 3 bet calling it off on any flop with a low rundowny ugly double suited hand, but given the situation i think a call is slightly better than a fold.

[Sc000t]

Tnoyes,

*I haven't rewatched the hand so I'm just going off of what I can infer from Tnoyes response.

I think in general (and a lot of places preflop) this is a situation where you can make really great arguments for multiple decisions. There will obviously be a "best" play but like many (most) preflop situations in PLO it is extremely hard to quantify and actually figure out.

With that said I see your reasoning and it makes sense. I think the standard for most PLO players in this situation is to call and take a peak at the flop.

What I'd like members of leggo to do though before they blindly just consider the basic level variables of the situation (I'm getting good odds and I can narrow his range down) is to think about how the hand will play in the long run.

What I mean by that is, think about what you're actions are going to be on all the possible flop textures. And what I think you'll find is that most flops (80% or higher) you'll be check folding and losing your call of the 3bet. The other 20% or fewer times you do elect to put more money in, I think our equity at best will be 55% on average.

And what I mean by that is...for all the scenarios that we are happy enough with the flop that we want to call bets or check raise or lead into the opponents, I think that if we average out our hand vs the opponents betting/calling/raising ranges that we'll still only be left with decent equity at best. Yes, we'll flop nut straights and nut boats and redic combo draws that aren’t blocked and we'll have great equity...but that won't happen as often as when we flop decent hands and decent draws and get them in vs either player with better hand and better draws...or more specifically, with the SB over caller who has rundownish type hands holding a pretty good weight in that calling range preflop that we don't like to see because we chop, are blocked or are setup in bad situations with that part of his range.

That sort of sums up my arguments for folding. Some positive reasons to call I think are slightly obvious like we can probably narrow down the aggressors range and get relative position on the flop betting round most of the time. We have good odds given the over caller in the blind. And another good aspect is that it is going multiway which can freeze up the 3bettor sometimes and let us see free turn cards more often than we would if it were HU...as I think we can expect the 3bettor to fire at flops a higher frequency in HU pots vs multiway...and that bodes well for us if we think his cbetting % falls due to the extra player in the pot. We're also playing deeper stacks (I just looked at the video) at 145bb effective before the hand started...I'm not entirely sure if that is a positive or negative though, but I'll say it's a helpful reason for making the call preflop.

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So i wrote all that above and got more curious about the actual analysis and starting running some calcs. I'm now starting to think that it's a very easy call. I'm going to work on these calcs some more and I'll try to sort out some kinks and maybe make it a bit more usable but it looks, from what I can tell like an obvious call from seeing my numbers. I over estimated how bad check/folding a higher % of flops would be vs getting it in at 40-60% equity averages....to this point, deeper stacks help push this further to the call side and as stacks get shallower it gets closer to a fold.

You'd have to play extremely tight (check/fold about 95% of flops) or get it in very bad on average (30% equity) ...or a combination of both of those for this to be a fold and I think most players can and will avoid those two pitfalls.

When I get a second I'm going to refine the calculations to account for the times we might win smaller pots by check/raising and getting folds which will actually move it closer toward a fold but imo it won't move the line enough to actually make it a fold.

Hope that all makes sense. I'm going to leave my original thought process so you can see and critique it.