Tim reviews some hands he recently played at $1,000 NL while focusing on the concept of "when to check strong hands". Tim compares slow playing, check-raising, and betting strong hands.
In the Ac3c hand (you c/r the turn on 9c2sTcJs at 42 mins) had the river totally blanked off (i.e 4 diamonds) would you have bluffed it? What about a spade river?
In the final hand you check 44 on the turn to the pfr (on 498r8). In this spot I would usually lead my fullhouse because people will often raise your turn bet as a bluff and for value because they can rep the 8 really well. Whether we check or bet the turn with our fullhouse there will be a good chance we stack him on the river the times he has an 8. However if we bet, we give him the opportunity to bluff raise and fire the river in whats now a bigger pot. Finally, betting also helps protect when we bet a draw such as JT. If your checking all your strong hands on the turn here to c/c or c/r isn't your turn betting range extremely weak? Would like to hear your thoughts!
Good video, I guess the best on Leggo this year so far.
I expected some more "controversial" checking though. Like overpairs or sets on drawy boards out of position. Do you every take this check- line with these types of hands?
good video.
-it is very good that you point and discuss your own mistakes in the hands played.
-I am not sure the K9o river call is that obvious when he overbets river..He does not have much reason to turn his hands into a bluff plus he can easily slowplay sets on this dry of flop with a player behind and he has no weaker kings and plenty of better ones
5:00, w/K4dd, what's your raising range on this flop if your not raising this hand?
-10:00, you said you could turn 99 into a bluff here on the river, but if he has Jx won't he be bluffcatching all the time coz we can have 9To, clubs, etc.?
-13:00, w/K9o, you said you would check the turn on 72KK w/QQ, if your checking a hand that strong, does that mean your basically never betting this turn? Why don't we bet this hand to try get 3sts from 7x?
also, could you talk about your decision to open in this hand? I'm never sure how to adjust when a fish/weak player has position on me
-15:00, his bluff is ok? he doens't fold out anything, he never gets value from worse... maybe 2x or 33-66
Why did you check the river in this hand when he ckbk the turn? I would have been leading all rivers for value form his 7x and Pps.
18:30, w/A5hh, when he c/r the river you say he doesn't have many hands he could turn into a bluff, what about 8x and 7x?
-27:00, you say the utg opener is likely to ckbk Jx on QJ5cc multiway, why is this? if I'm him I'm usually betting here to charge draws,
-44:00, w/44, you said he'd ckbk 984r alot w/8x, why won't he cbet here?
The JJ hand:
I understand your logic for not 3betting pre but the value we get from the fish is gonna be much greater than the pain of "having to make tough decision when he 4bets". Its a pretty easy fold to a 4bet anyway imo.
The river: Do u think hes gonna bet 44-99 when checked to? If he checks behind those its pretty close whether to check or to shove. Your thoughts?
Good video, I guess the best on Leggo this year so far.
Wow thanks!
I expected some more "controversial" checking though. Like overpairs or sets on drawy boards out of position. Do you every take this check- line with these types of hands?
I do and this is a good question. I'll try and touch on this in future videos.
seabeast's vids. His tournament vids were all 10/10 imo
Thanks Donktard - yep, his cash game vids are great too. Was always a big fan of his vids.
Great video as always. Acctually I personally know a player who started a Leggo subscription just to watch your vids.
Nice!
I the beginning of the video you recommended another leggo coach's videos. But I couldn't hear who that was. Please tell me.
I really like these structured learning videos as I think they can be a lot more focused than gamplay vids and help explain fundamentals better.
I got a lot out of this video, even though I play for a lot lower stakes (25c/50c 50c/$1 NL). Do you think that at lower stakes players should bet out more rather than check raising, as lower stakes players tend to be a lot more passive and therefore can not be relied upon to bluff / bet rivers as much?
I really like these structured learning videos as I think they can be a lot more focused than gamplay vids and help explain fundamentals better.
I got a lot out of this video, even though I play for a lot lower stakes (25c/50c 50c/$1 NL). Do you think that at lower stakes players should bet out more rather than check raising, as lower stakes players tend to be a lot more passive and therefore can not be relied upon to bluff / bet rivers as much?
BTW Thanks for the music tip, always appreciated.
Cheers,
Thanks. Generally...yes, you can't expect the average small stakes player to value bet rivers as thinly as higher stakes players. You sort of want to weight how likely they are to bet call the river if you check, how likely they are to herocall you if you bet, how likely they are to valubet the river thinly if you check. Lots to consider but generally you have the right idea. You also don't need to balance and play as "tricky" at smaller stakes, in part because player pools are much bigger.
The JJ hand:
I understand your logic for not 3betting pre but the value we get from the fish is gonna be much greater than the pain of "having to make tough decision when he 4bets". Its a pretty easy fold to a 4bet anyway imo.
The river: Do u think hes gonna bet 44-99 when checked to? If he checks behind those its pretty close whether to check or to shove. Your thoughts?
Yo. JJ hand was mostly just a funny hand. Agree 3betting is a bit better. Good question about 44-99 - He probably isn't going to herofold those hands and its hard to know if he will jam them or not. He was betting so randomly that I thought I'd make sure not to fold out all his random draws. River is really close, usually a jam vs this type of villain I'd say.
good video.
-it is very good that you point and discuss your own mistakes in the hands played.
-I am not sure the K9o river call is that obvious when he overbets river..He does not have much reason to turn his hands into a bluff plus he can easily slowplay sets on this dry of flop with a player behind and he has no weaker kings and plenty of better ones
I think he is less likely to overbet Kx+ given he expects pair hands to be near the top of my range. Only one K left and he has his reasons to turn his hand into a bluff so I'm pretty confident i'm good > ~36% here.
In the Ac3c hand (you c/r the turn on 9c2sTcJs at 42 mins) had the river totally blanked off (i.e 4 diamonds) would you have bluffed it? What about a spade river?
Not a fan of bluffing a spade since spade combo draws are def a good part of his range. 4 diamonds is pretty close. Sometimes I guess, it seems pretty close - not sure how he plays Jx on that river to a bet. If I didn't have clubs I'd bluff clubs for sure.
In the final hand you check 44 on the turn to the pfr (on 498r8). In this spot I would usually lead my fullhouse because people will often raise your turn bet as a bluff and for value because they can rep the 8 really well. Whether we check or bet the turn with our fullhouse there will be a good chance we stack him on the river the times he has an 8. However if we bet, we give him the opportunity to bluff raise and fire the river in whats now a bigger pot. Finally, betting also helps protect when we bet a draw such as JT. If your checking all your strong hands on the turn here to c/c or c/r isn't your turn betting range extremely weak? Would like to hear your thoughts!
These are all good points, I guess I just prefer a bit more of a pot controlling style with most of my range in this type of spot. Agree that this makes your betting range a bit weak, but I think its hard to get exploited for that. When I have 9x or 77 or TT it just sucks a lot to get raise and not know how to play the river in an inflated pot. Agree that this isn't the only way to play it for sure. You can also c/r a hand like JT sometimes on the turn.
5:00, w/K4dd, what's your raising range on this flop if your not raising this hand?
Sets, 2 pair, nfd? depends on game flow, reads.
-10:00, you said you could turn 99 into a bluff here on the river, but if he has Jx won't he be bluffcatching all the time coz we can have 9To, clubs, etc.?
Mentioned this in another response, but yea, wouldn't always be bluffing this spot thinking of it some more - clubs would be good to bluff if I didn't have them.
-13:00, w/K9o, you said you would check the turn on 72KK w/QQ, if your checking a hand that strong, does that mean your basically never betting this turn? Why don't we bet this hand to try get 3sts from 7x?
Would mostly bet 77/22, sometimes Kx, sometimes bluffs, depends. Mostly checking turn a lot. Never expect to get 3 streets from 7x. He often folds the turn with 7x I think which is why I wouldn't bet QQ.
also, could you talk about your decision to open in this hand? I'm never sure how to adjust when a fish/weak player has position on me
K9o can make a straight :) Don't be afraid to take exploitable/unbalanced lines vs weaker players postflop.
-15:00, his bluff is ok? he doens't fold out anything, he never gets value from worse... maybe 2x or 33-66
It's a bit optimistic. I'd prefer to check mostly.
Why did you check the river in this hand when he ckbk the turn? I would have been leading all rivers for value form his 7x and Pps.
? K9 hand? I flatted the river.
18:30, w/A5hh, when he c/r the river you say he doesn't have many hands he could turn into a bluff, what about 8x and 7x?
I don't think he gets to the river with 7x and he might just flat 8x. He could have some bluffs, yes.
-27:00, you say the utg opener is likely to ckbk Jx on QJ5cc multiway, why is this? if I'm him I'm usually betting here to charge draws,
Doesn't want to get c/raised, hard to get value from worse.Betting is fine too.
-44:00, w/44, you said he'd ckbk 984r alot w/8x, why won't he cbet here?
