James battles with some mid-stakes regs while playing 4 tables of $600 NL 6-Max on Stars in real time. He deals with some cooler situations and talks about people's barreling frequencies.
30.30 : "3bet by zBolo here... I don't really know who he is... I'm just going to re-pop him"
I was going to say this was bad analysis... but it isn't even analysis, just nonsense. Never mind the fact that this guy only has 39 big blinds and that you priced yourself into a call - then chose to fold.
Maybe you were tilted by losing over 200bb vs what looks like a passive fish, but that's not an excuse imo.
30.30 : "3bet by zBolo here... I don't really know who he is... I'm just going to re-pop him"
I was going to say this was bad analysis... but it isn't even analysis, just nonsense. Never mind the fact that this guy only has 39 big blinds and that you priced yourself into a call - then chose to fold.
Maybe you were tilted by losing over 200bb vs what looks like a passive fish, but that's not an excuse imo.
yeah live commentary was tough. over a small sample he's 3bet 1/6 times from both sb and bb, so seemed pretty active and I dont think he rejams air over the 4bet. Im risking about 57 to pick up the 57 with my 4bet so has to work about half the time to break even. A lot of shorter stacks will lean on ppl w/ their 3bets and I think he's one of those guys. With such a high 3bet sample, I think he folds more than half his range unless he is going to be shipping in 98s type of stuff
Odds are not good enuf to call jam at less than 2:1 unless I do believe he's jamming over 4bets light but I dont think that is the case with our history
The range I poker stoved you were 2% away from a call. If you think he is 3bing light so much, do you think a shove with these stack sizes is better?
The 200bb+ hand with AQ hand seems like a fold on the turn all day long for me. I think you got paranoid after your small flop cbet and managed to convince yourself to call down. I'd be interested to see what other players/instructors think about it. Is it possible to post that hand in the forums with more stats/reads on the guy?
can you elaborate a bit why you thought you were good to call turn (and even river) in the KJo hand?
i think most of the hands you lost were coolers, but definitely think your river call w/ set of jacks was really terrible. villain just isn't c/c flop anything he has to turn into a bluff, and its j10/109/108 type hand very very often b/c you can close your eyes and call 2 with them.
can you elaborate a bit why you thought you were good to call turn (and even river) in the KJo hand?
i think most of the hands you lost were coolers, but definitely think your river call w/ set of jacks was really terrible. villain just isn't c/c flop anything he has to turn into a bluff, and its j10/109/108 type hand very very often b/c you can close your eyes and call 2 with them.
The range I poker stoved you were 2% away from a call. If you think he is 3bing light so much, do you think a shove with these stack sizes is better?
The 200bb+ hand with AQ hand seems like a fold on the turn all day long for me. I think you got paranoid after your small flop cbet and managed to convince yourself to call down. I'd be interested to see what other players/instructors think about it. Is it possible to post that hand in the forums with more stats/reads on the guy?
Thanks for answering btw.
The range i checked out my hand had around 29% equity vs 77-AA,AJ-AK. I think getting stacks in isnt a big mistake by any means but probly slightly -EV in the long haul. I think straight jamming is a bad plan unless we think he is folding some hands that would have gotten in against us or we believe we are vulnerable to being 4bet bluffed off our hand... but I think any hand he is folding to a jam he is going to fold to a small 4b neway. From my experience its rare for a 30-40bb short stacker to get allin with random SCs that they 3bet.
I'll try to post that hand sure, it was def a tricky spot. My sizing def played a bit of a role, but I also have top of my range pretty much. Almost any hand I have on the turn is bluff catching other than KK, QQ and flushes... the turn was a solid card for him to keep bluffing on and I think he fires turn and river a lot if he's bluff raising the flop. I also felt gameflow wise my range felt wide squeezing there and that he was ready to make a play so went with my instincts although it was off this time.
I strongly disagree with you regarding playing the big blind vs a button minraise, one of the necessary adjustment is to flat a wide range preflop getting 3.5 to 1 immediate odds. I dont see how a strategy of mostly 3-bet or fold can be the correct way to play against BTN minraise.
I strongly disagree with you regarding playing the big blind vs a button minraise, one of the necessary adjustment is to flat a wide range preflop getting 3.5 to 1 immediate odds. I dont see how a strategy of mostly 3-bet or fold can be the correct way to play against BTN minraise.
I dont think I would advise a 3bet or fold strategy vs a minraise either, I think I flat a wider range than most against minraises
Haven't watched the vid yet, but if all the comments about James maybe being on tilt are true, then fair play and credit to him for putting the vid out. Video watchers need to be aware that there can be an element of survivor bias in the vids that are put out. If coach X records a session, makes a 200bb bluffcatch that goes wrong, and plays not great in other spots, do you think he always puts the vid out?
The motives for not uploading a vid like this can range from selfish 'I dont wanna get flamed', to good 'I don't want members to think this sort of play is optimal'. What is inescapable though is that these sessions can happen to a big winner, and the player still be a big winner. Without these vids, members might think coaches always play A game, super sick poker. It's not always the case, and you shouldn't get disheartened if you don't.
I had a big month for me in Jan, but played 3-4 bad sessions that would have had people going off their heads had you seen some of the hands. I imagine it's the same for Denny, Aaron, Chewy etc. Recognition of this from leggo members is, imo, important.
agree 100% grog. I have mad respect for people with the guts to put out a video regardless of how they play (scrapping a vid because of D level commentary is understandable obv), and I would even go so far as to say a video where someone gets shit on is more valuable to watch than a video where everything goes right. only watching videos where everything goes right is not a realistic representation of poker and can make you feel kinda crazy when you have a nightmare session b/c you've never seen it happen to someone else.
if TMZ got their hands on a poker training site I bet we could get a lot more videos like that
I haven't watched the video but people are paying $30 a month for instructional poker videos.
There is nothing instructional or professional about watching a pro player playing bad and tilting.
What do we learn? Not much.
Without these vids, members might think coaches always play A game, super sick poker. It's not always the case, and you shouldn't get disheartened if you don't.
I'm sorry but this statement is so ridiculous.
Justifying a bad video by saying it'll actually be good viewing as it will show people that coaches don't always play their best is embarrassing.
People are not paying for subscriptions to see coaches play sub optimally.
It just isn't professional.
mythrilfox,
You need to stop being selfish and instead of giving 'mad respect' for video makers putting out bad videos without realizing it, maybe think about the targetted audience and how they will percieve the videos they are paying for.
Haven't watched the vid yet, but if all the comments about James maybe being on tilt are true, then fair play and credit to him for putting the vid out. Video watchers need to be aware that there can be an element of survivor bias in the vids that are put out. If coach X records a session, makes a 200bb bluffcatch that goes wrong, and plays not great in other spots, do you think he always puts the vid out?
The motives for not uploading a vid like this can range from selfish 'I dont wanna get flamed', to good 'I don't want members to think this sort of play is optimal'. What is inescapable though is that these sessions can happen to a big winner, and the player still be a big winner. Without these vids, members might think coaches always play A game, super sick poker. It's not always the case, and you shouldn't get disheartened if you don't.
I had a big month for me in Jan, but played 3-4 bad sessions that would have had people going off their heads had you seen some of the hands. I imagine it's the same for Denny, Aaron, Chewy etc. Recognition of this from leggo members is, imo, important.
I agree........respect for James for putting the video ..........i learned a lot .....i think if you can learn a lot from such a video.......much more than from a vid where the coach runs hotter than the sun imo.
As long as the coach explains during or after the vid in the comments why exactly certain moves were bad, I don't see the problem, as long you learn something. It's only a problem if you learn wrong things imo. So for example James posted a hand from his vid in the forum, so he is open for a discussion etc, and doesn't run away from it, takes responsibility. So James, I think you do a pretty nice job here :cool:
I haven't watched the video but people are paying $30 a month for instructional poker videos.
There is nothing instructional or professional about watching a pro player playing bad and tilting.
What do we learn? Not much.
I'm sorry but this statement is so ridiculous.
Justifying a bad video by saying it'll actually be good viewing as it will show people that coaches don't always play their best is embarrassing.
People are not paying for subscriptions to see coaches play sub optimally.
It just isn't professional.
mythrilfox,
You need to stop being selfish and instead of giving 'mad respect' for video makers putting out bad videos without realizing it, maybe think about the targetted audience and how they will percieve the videos they are paying for.
there is a massive difference between sub-optimal play and sub-optimal commentary, and i think you are confusing the two. of COURSE we are going to release videos with sub-optimal play. every video in the history of poker features sub-optimal play. we are human, and humans make mistakes. galfond is the best video producer on the planet and he makes several plays a session that he says he didn't like. are you expecting us to be superhuman? by your logic, leakfinder videos would be worthless, yet they consistently get very high ratings and many people find them extremely helpful.
obviously there is a threshold at which someone's play can get so bad & is such a poor representation of how you should actually play that it isn't worth commentating on (open-shoving every hand, for example), but that's not what i'm talking about. and i'm not talking about us recording play where we're drunk or have been up for several days on a speed binge. i'm just talking about those sessions where we face a lot of tough decisions and guess wrong, or consistently run into the tops of people's ranges. those sessions are inevitable, and learning how to handle them is an integral part to improving at poker.
in any event, i take releasing videos with my best commentary very seriously. i don't know if other guys do what i do, but i re-record quite a bit to get all my thoughts out in an organized and logical fashion. and if i make a bad play and explain what i think i should have done instead and why, i don't see how, from your perspective, that's any different from me having made that play.
I haven't watched the video but people are paying $30 a month for instructional poker videos.
There is nothing instructional or professional about watching a pro player playing bad and tilting.
What do we learn? Not much.
I'm sorry but this statement is so ridiculous.
Justifying a bad video by saying it'll actually be good viewing as it will show people that coaches don't always play their best is embarrassing.
People are not paying for subscriptions to see coaches play sub optimally.
It just isn't professional.
mythrilfox,
You need to stop being selfish and instead of giving 'mad respect' for video makers putting out bad videos without realizing it, maybe think about the targetted audience and how they will percieve the videos they are paying for.
I rewatched over the vid today after losing that 200bb pot where ppl said I started to tilt, and honestly I dont think I really made any mistakes afterwards. The only questionable spot I thought was the bet/call with JJ on a 4 card straight board but I'm not even that dissatisfied with it. He needs a T there and if he thinks I'm able to value bet light he may put pressure on me w/ some merges, but mostly I felt like it was just an odd line to ever check there w/ a straight when I'm more likely to pay off a bet on the river than to b/c. And maybe flatting JJ from the bb vs the 30/10 type of player instead of 3betting I thought could be better as well pending on some things.
I think you guys are all pretty awesome if you can find more leaks afterwards and would appreciate that information but I thought the play was good and stand by it.
My post most definitely wasn't a personal attack at you and I have always enjoyed your videos in the past.
The only reason I ended up posting in here was because of how ridiculous grogheadflows post was.
The coach is paid to make a video, it's expected to be good and instructional.
It's like saying an author releasing a book with a lot of typos is a good thing because it shows us the author is still human and can make mistakes.
mythrilfox,
I don't think you understand what I meant.
Someone releasing a bad video and knowing it was a bad video, going over all the parts where he played bad and what he should have done or why he did it makes EXCELLENT videos.
When someone releases a video without even realizing they played bad and have to find out from the subscribers (who are paying for the video), ofcourse you can forgive them but trying to justify it with grogheadflows reasoning is ridiculous and an insult to the people paying for the videos.
As long as the coach explains during or after the vid in the comments why exactly certain moves were bad, I don't see the problem, as long you learn something. It's only a problem if you learn wrong things imo. So for example James posted a hand from his vid in the forum, so he is open for a discussion etc, and doesn't run away from it, takes responsibility. So James, I think you do a pretty nice job here :cool:
Yeah it's good that he did that.
I'd say everyone who is playing to a decent standard should watch the videos on here and as well as picking up good info, also look for leaks and things you don't agree with. Don't take what the instructor says as gospel (apart from AE Jones) and use your own mind to think things through logically.
The only reason I ended up posting in here was because of how ridiculous grogheadflows post was.
The coach is paid to make a video, it's expected to be good and instructional.
It's like saying an author releasing a book with a lot of typos is a good thing because it shows us the author is still human and can make mistakes.
Hi there, I don't recognise the analogy at all.
As others have said, you can have a vid with bad play and good commentary addressing this. I'm not saying have bad play and bad commentary. I think we're basically in agreement.
I think videos about peoples C-game are really important, cause it helps putting their A-game into perspective.
If a guy tilts a TON, but still beats stakes like 2/4 or higher, u can probably say that his A-game must be pretty darn good (for example by him capitalising on his C-game, or by him being awesome and smart).
If a guy never tilts, u are probably not gonna be that impressed by his A-game, but u should give him a ton of respect for his discipline (and now actually can have quite a good idea about what level u need to play to beat certain stakes).
Or to put it differently:
There is no way of comparing 2 poker players without knowing their C-game as well as their A-game.
I think it's pretty important to maintain composure as much as you can and play as well as you can. I dont know how valuable video's are that show someone's C game tbh, although it is definitely fine if the coach can later identify any mistakes made that he felt he could have done something differently. For whatever reason lately, whenever I get stacked I usually get into subsequent cooler/bad beat type of situations where I blow through 3-4 stacks without being able to really play anything differently looking back on the hands later so that probably has contributed to a bit of a higher "tilt" score more than anything.
There's certainly been sessions where i've tilted and just played not the greatest but I think this one was fine.
