Denny continues his play on 4 tables of $1,000 NL shorthanded on Stars. Before he gets into the action he kicks off with a short presentation on check raising fundamentals then applies the topics in his session.
Minute 39:00, table 1, AK in a 3bet pot JTx all diamonds.
My std line here would be cbet flop, check/shove turn, since there are some hands in my range that would go for only one barrel and. For me, it's such a sweet hand to check/shove turn and protect my turn checking range (he is tempted to float IP with many worse hands, you completely own hands like KQ or AQ that are a big part of his range), that Im guessing you don't check turn with many hands and opt to barrel.
Comments on that?
BTW, best video I have seen in a lot of months. By far. I really like your 5/10 series, and having a HUD running improves a lot the experience.
Hey Danny!
Nice vid but a bit too random imo since it is live. Have a couple of questions:
1) According to PTR u haven't played on PS for a while. Do u play somewhere else or u was taking a break from poker?
2) About that AK on the river. I think its a very interesting spot. U cant bet for value with your hand since your opponents range is strong enough (protected) that he has no need to call with worse so u check. But once u check u get in terrible spot. Opponent always have SDValue and a decent portion of his range is the nuts (12 combos of KQ, btw how do you think is it ok to peel KQ w/o diamond on the turn?), so once he bets we are always guessing if he turns his SDValue hands in bluff or not.
Summary:
1) we cant bluff profitably since his range is too strong
2) once we check to try to showdown our weak SD hands (like Ax,KK,QQ,Jx etc) we get in tough spot if we think our opponent is good enough to turn made hand into bluff
Considering all these factors and thinking about our entire range on the river dont u think we have to be checking all our hands there? I mean he is unlikely to make a mistake once we bet but he might make it once we check. Otherwise he plays perfectly.
@ the start: if we are betting all our aces doesnt that make our cking range is too weak? which means he can bluff us off our medium hands and valuebet KK type hands when we ck to him?
i find these spots difficult because i dont like valuebetting if i cant rep any air and i figure he will likely bet an ace himself on the river if he did decide to ckback the turn. Is my thinking flawed because he won't always bet an ace on the river (or he might bet smaller than i would have, thus missing value that way too) but he will normally call my river lead (even though he shouldnt)?
Do you think i underestimate the frequency in which people call my river leads with KK type hands?
Maybe a good balanced strategy would be to lead with my AT+ hands and the very occasional bluff on the river? and ck/decide with my middle pairs and weaker aces?
at 32minutes with the T9ss on 622ss7c, We have a shitload of equity... Are you ever worried about him shoving a draw or a TT type hand on you on the turn? I assume we have to bet/fold which really sucks? Thoughts on a ck/jam here?
thx, and dont feel the need to dump away a stack just to make the ending of a video interesting lol
t9s hand, you came to the conclusion that you were valuebetting vs a 6. he's never calling a shove unless he's tilted or a fish. So why not bet 200$ and get called 100% of the time? Most 5/10+ big winners never do this even against weaker reg and i would really love to know why.
I'm in the middle of my exams so it can take slightly longer for me to answer all questions.
Minute 39:00, table 1, AK in a 3bet pot JTx all diamonds.
My std line here would be cbet flop, check/shove turn, since there are some hands in my range that would go for only one barrel and. For me, it's such a sweet hand to check/shove turn and protect my turn checking range (he is tempted to float IP with many worse hands, you completely own hands like KQ or AQ that are a big part of his range), that Im guessing you don't check turn with many hands and opt to barrel.
Comments on that?
BTW, best video I have seen in a lot of months. By far. I really like your 5/10 series, and having a HUD running improves a lot the experience.
This seems like a rare spot where ch/shove might be good. But there are some problems though. Once he bets the turn, I would almost never expect him to bet/fold, so it feels so counterintuitive to semibluff our entire stack vs. a range that is rarely folding. It would be great however, if he decides to bet/call (or fold) some KQ or AQ type of hand.
So it could definitely be good, but it feels unnatural to me.
With regards to you betting one and c/folding turn a lot on this board. I think you should give up with more of your bluffing range on the flop then. If I bet this flop my hand is pretty strong usually.
Hey Danny!
Nice vid but a bit too random imo since it is live. Have a couple of questions:
1) According to PTR u haven't played on PS for a while. Do u play somewhere else or u was taking a break from poker?
2) About that AK on the river. I think its a very interesting spot. U cant bet for value with your hand since your opponents range is strong enough (protected) that he has no need to call with worse so u check. But once u check u get in terrible spot. Opponent always have SDValue and a decent portion of his range is the nuts (12 combos of KQ, btw how do you think is it ok to peel KQ w/o diamond on the turn?), so once he bets we are always guessing if he turns his SDValue hands in bluff or not.
Summary:
1) we cant bluff profitably since his range is too strong
2) once we check to try to showdown our weak SD hands (like Ax,KK,QQ,Jx etc) we get in tough spot if we think our opponent is good enough to turn made hand into bluff
Considering all these factors and thinking about our entire range on the river dont u think we have to be checking all our hands there? I mean he is unlikely to make a mistake once we bet but he might make it once we check. Otherwise he plays perfectly.
Hey, it's Denny with an e ; )
1) Both. I didn't have my desk set up for a while due to me moving to my new place. It took a lot of my time and energy to get the place fixed. I had to lay the floor and kitchen etc. etc. But things are looking great now ! Also I got a pretty sweet deal through Leggo VIP on other client, so I'm exploring that a little bit now.
2) Really interesting spot indeed. I think I should have c/folded the river. Pretty much everything hit that board that is in his callingrange (pre, flop and turn). The only hand I could possibly beat is AQ with the Qd. But there's only 3 combo's of that. I didn't realize there were so few combo's, while playing.
I do think there is merit to sometimes check a very strong hand on the river in similar spots. Where it looks like we do not have a c/c range. So we can definitely mix it up. Although in this spot, if I'd have a flush I would just shove, just because with his range he'll call so often
Nice vid. I'm not gonna reveal my sn but I've played you a decent amount on stars 5-10 and I respect your game.
JKhh hand: The clickback on the flop is fine but once he calls its very obvious imo that he has a queen and is not folding. You dont have to shove just because you turned a flush draw. Basically you are putting the money in with about 24% equity against JQ+ with close to zero fold equity.
AdKx hand I dislike the river. I think he puts you on AQ, AK, QQ-KK etc. and he bets only $390 because he thinks you'll fold to a shove. I might be more likely to call a shove actually because I think if he decides to turn something into a bluff hes gonna just ship it in.
@ the start: if we are betting all our aces doesnt that make our cking range is too weak? which means he can bluff us off our medium hands and valuebet KK type hands when we ck to him?
i find these spots difficult because i dont like valuebetting if i cant rep any air and i figure he will likely bet an ace himself on the river if he did decide to ckback the turn. Is my thinking flawed because he won't always bet an ace on the river (or he might bet smaller than i would have, thus missing value that way too) but he will normally call my river lead (even though he shouldnt)?
Do you think i underestimate the frequency in which people call my river leads with KK type hands?
Maybe a good balanced strategy would be to lead with my AT+ hands and the very occasional bluff on the river? and ck/decide with my middle pairs and weaker aces?
at 32minutes with the T9ss on 622ss7c, We have a shitload of equity... Are you ever worried about him shoving a draw or a TT type hand on you on the turn? I assume we have to bet/fold which really sucks? Thoughts on a ck/jam here?
thx, and dont feel the need to dump away a stack just to make the ending of a video interesting lol
Hey, sorry for the late reaction. I'm finally done with my exams... I think I passed them all if anyone is interested :)
In spots where I can't rep any air I usually turn a lot of things into bluffs. So sometimes people should and will look you up with weaker holdings. The important thing to know is if people will bluff or not. If they never bluff in a spot like that, you might as well valuebet and hope for the best... After all, checking wouldn't gain you anything.
T9s, I think he will bet/call so often that I rather bet myself and have him either fold or call. I am not too worried about him shoving actually, it just seems like a not so good play if he has A6 for example.
t9s hand, you came to the conclusion that you were valuebetting vs a 6. he's never calling a shove unless he's tilted or a fish. So why not bet 200$ and get called 100% of the time? Most 5/10+ big winners never do this even against weaker reg and i would really love to know why.
I wasn't too happy about my shove there. Betting 200$ is interesting, it'd be to induce a shove rather to get called though. I tried fake blockbetting before, then stopped doing it because I felt like it was too obvious sometimes, good point though and I think I will try it out.
Nice vid. I'm not gonna reveal my sn but I've played you a decent amount on stars 5-10 and I respect your game.
JKhh hand: The clickback on the flop is fine but once he calls its very obvious imo that he has a queen and is not folding. You dont have to shove just because you turned a flush draw. Basically you are putting the money in with about 24% equity against JQ+ with close to zero fold equity.
AdKx hand I dislike the river. I think he puts you on AQ, AK, QQ-KK etc. and he bets only $390 because he thinks you'll fold to a shove. I might be more likely to call a shove actually because I think if he decides to turn something into a bluff hes gonna just ship it in.
I think you are right on both points, I especially disliked the AdKx. Although the KJhh is a closer decision imo, I think sometimes he would expect me to stop bluffing and maybe fold strong hands... Then again, maybe I'm underestimating my image. It's a spot that if I see a random regular take that line, they just have it
1) Both. I didn't have my desk set up for a while due to me moving to my new place. It took a lot of my time and energy to get the place fixed. I had to lay the floor and kitchen etc. etc. But things are looking great now ! Also I got a pretty sweet deal through Leggo VIP on other client, so I'm exploring that a little bit now.
2) Really interesting spot indeed. I think I should have c/folded the river. Pretty much everything hit that board that is in his callingrange (pre, flop and turn). The only hand I could possibly beat is AQ with the Qd. But there's only 3 combo's of that. I didn't realize there were so few combo's, while playing.
I do think there is merit to sometimes check a very strong hand on the river in similar spots. Where it looks like we do not have a c/c range. So we can definitely mix it up. Although in this spot, if I'd have a flush I would just shove, just because with his range he'll call so often
Nice vid:)
Only here:
From a theoretical perspective checking here OTR with your entire range is the best play and it is not even close, imo.
But I agree that it is likely not necessary here to play optimally and jamming might be better in the vacuum if you have a flush...
I think you are right on both points, I especially disliked the AdKx. Although the KJhh is a closer decision imo, I think sometimes he would expect me to stop bluffing and maybe fold strong hands... Then again, maybe I'm underestimating my image. It's a spot that if I see a random regular take that line, they just have it
with the KhJh-hand I would like to CiB vs Villains who are 100BB eff. deep with you (from the start)...
Here you rbing yourself imo pretty cose to the comittment-threshold shoul he jam over your CiB with an OC and Backdoorstr8draw+BDFD...
-> so that mb a direct jam would be better b/c he is shorter.
As played, I think the turnjam is close, but very likely legit.
You have extreme low FEQ, but you also only need very less FEQ here and mb sometimes he might fold here even a TP as strong as QJ due to your reasoning and mb he even floated in non-0% your CiB...
39:00 table 1: What about check call flop and what about check shove flop? Like you mentioned earlier in the thread, once villain calls flop, he isn't gonna fold much on turn, so what about checking our entire range on the flop? In this case once we c/c, do you think we get barreled a lot? I doubt it since we can easily have like TP+flush draw and even stronger hands if villain thinks we are tricky (like what else can he put us on if he thinks we c-bet a flush draw besides top pair and better). Also if we think villain is going to bet a lot once we check, we can also balance with stronger hands since we c/f so much.
Like, if villain isn't gonna barrel much once we check, we win one extra bet vs worse hands, and vs better hands money was going in anyways. So what I think is optimal is check/shove flop if we think villain might barrel us a lot to win maximum from worse, and c/c if we think villain is going to give us respect once we check/call and we can get to showdown.
Also, do you think we should have a c/c range on a flop like this and why is this the case?
As played though, because we think he calls a lot on the turn, would you shove any complete blank on the river?
Also, how would this change if villain was UTG+1? Like his range would be a bit stronger, so I guess checking flop becomes even a better option? Or doesn't it really matter since our range is stronger as well?
Sorry if I am not very clear with my questions about this hand, but think I can't do a better job and curious what you think about my thoughts.
I think both c/c and c/shove are viable options, though my preference leans towards check/shoving. Even though it is possible for us to have strong hands when we c/c, I think with my (perceived) style and just basic combinatorics will make Villain think our c/c range is weaker and biased towards something like we have (AQ/AK).
PokerStove says we have 35% against JJ and TT only, including QQ gives 44%. So given he bet/folds a good chunk and sometimes bet/calls dominated draws (like the one he has) I actually think check/shoving might be the best play.
Given our good equity, it also is immediately clear why c/shove should be better than c/c.
Also, do you think we should have a c/c range on a flop like this and why is this the case?
As played though, because we think he calls a lot on the turn, would you shove any complete blank on the river?
I don't think it's necessary at all to have a c/c range, however it can be best to do it in a vacuum sometimes with a strong hand against an aggressive opponent with a weak range.
I probably would have shoved the river on a blank, I think he is very likely to raise flop or shove turn on this board with a strong hand, because the hands I am barreling with often have FD+straightdraw.
In hindsight I like c/shove (or perhaps c/r if I think that nets me more FE) vs. every position. Indeed, it's a board I c/f so often, that players will feel inclined to autobet when checked to.
