This week the guys review "shinigammi" play in 3-bet pots where hero did not have the initiative. Other topics that are covered in the hands are bluff raises in 3-bet pots, 4-bet ranges, and what board run outs are good to bluff when the pre-flop aggressor checks.
In the first hand 79ss. I'm curious to know what hands you would be betting turn and river big for value given this specific villain (and also to balance your bluffing range). If pot is $55 on river how much are you betting?
If villain has overpairs in his range e.g. QQ-AA, AJ, there's also a chance that you could be value towning yourself unless you have a really tight value betting range here. If your sizing is big it also might scare him off to folding any hands that you beat (e.g. A8, 8x, 77,99-1010) and will call only with better hands e.g. QQ-AA.
Given he has overpairs in his range, would it be ideal to polarize your range more when you take bet turn+river? So then with hands like 99-1010, Jx what would you do with that range? I think alot of the time when I'm in this pot and I have a hand like QQ I would bet 2/3~ on river because I expect myself to be sometimes called by better but also increase the chances of getting called by worse. But I'm trying to think of my range in general as a whole and confused with what bet sizing to take and with what holdings + adding bluffs in my range. Thanks Zaza. Good vid.
Yo great vid! Loved the in depth analysis of the hands and the discussion overall illustrated a lot of cool concepts and ideas.
About the AJ hand what are your thoughts on 4betting it pre as a bluff?
I mean we dont know much about the guy and as displayed in the hand we are gonna be in a lot of weird/awkward spots and we have great blockers to do so.
Also the KTo hand - since he made it so small pre we should be able to make money by calling but what about 4balling it as a bluff? Same idea as the AJo hand basically - offsuit broadway with not much info and opponent with the initiative.
Or do you think calling yields more EV than adding it to our 4bluff range?
Yo great vid! Loved the in depth analysis of the hands and the discussion overall illustrated a lot of cool concepts and ideas.
About the AJ hand what are your thoughts on 4betting it pre as a bluff?
I mean we dont know much about the guy and as displayed in the hand we are gonna be in a lot of weird/awkward spots and we have great blockers to do so.
Also the KTo hand - since he made it so small pre we should be able to make money by calling but what about 4balling it as a bluff? Same idea as the AJo hand basically - offsuit broadway with not much info and opponent with the initiative.
Or do you think calling yields more EV than adding it to our 4bluff range?
Looking forward to next part!
Cheers
My thoughts are that villain never makes a big mistake if you 4-bet, and he can make big mistakes if you call. Obv it makes hand for urself easier to play if u 4-bet, but same is true for villain. I know I should not answer your question (also don't mean in that way), but just curious if this thought process is fine.
In the first hand 79ss. I'm curious to know what hands you would be betting turn and river big for value given this specific villain (and also to balance your bluffing range). If pot is $55 on river how much are you betting?
If villain has overpairs in his range e.g. QQ-AA, AJ, there's also a chance that you could be value towning yourself unless you have a really tight value betting range here. If your sizing is big it also might scare him off to folding any hands that you beat (e.g. A8, 8x, 77,99-1010) and will call only with better hands e.g. QQ-AA.
U make a good point about the river size.I wouldnt bet too big since I would want to widen his calling range, and I think the best way to do that at nl50 is by betting on the smaller side.So I would bet somewhere around 30-35.
As far as the hands I value bet here, I would bet 10s plus and maybe 99s if I thought he was a big station.It really comes down to if I expect him or not to only have 8x or worse as a check calling range here as the preflop 3bettor .The weaker his check calling range the more u should valuebet here.
Given he has overpairs in his range, would it be ideal to polarize your range more when you take bet turn+river? So then with hands like 99-1010, Jx what would you do with that range? I think alot of the time when I'm in this pot and I have a hand like QQ I would bet 2/3~ on river because I expect myself to be sometimes called by better but also increase the chances of getting called by worse. But I'm trying to think of my range in general as a whole and confused with what bet sizing to take and with what holdings + adding bluffs in my range. Thanks Zaza. Good vid.
This is a pretty specific spot and I dont think u need to focus on ur overall range in this situation , unless u are playing vs high thinking and observant opponents.U should try to exploit the fact that he s playing his hand face up , and the fact that most nl50 players wont have a good check calling range in this situation but will rather revert to the standard potcontrolling weak tps and 2nd pairs type range, in this situation.That being said u should prolly valuebet with a smaller size and revert to overbets or much bigger bets with ur bluffs, cos being unbalanced in this situation will pass unoticed to most of ur opponents.I think people at nl50 -200 are much more concerned about their perceived range than what ur bet sizing means for ur overall range and what sizing u should be using as far as how it interacts with his perceived river range.That souned a bit complicated, but to sum it up , when u bet the river , people usually bet according to their hand strength instead of tailoring it according to their opponents perceived range.And u could argue that people dont think in those terms at lower limits.
Yo great vid! Loved the in depth analysis of the hands and the discussion overall illustrated a lot of cool concepts and ideas.
About the AJ hand what are your thoughts on 4betting it pre as a bluff?
I mean we dont know much about the guy and as displayed in the hand we are gonna be in a lot of weird/awkward spots and we have great blockers to do so.
Also the KTo hand - since he made it so small pre we should be able to make money by calling but what about 4balling it as a bluff? Same idea as the AJo hand basically - offsuit broadway with not much info and opponent with the initiative.
Or do you think calling yields more EV than adding it to our 4bluff range?
Looking forward to next part!
Cheers
I prefer taking the pot odds and playing my hand for its sheer value, rather than turning it into a bluff.I would consider 4betting for value very small if I thought my opponent was the type to 3bet small alot and flat small 4bets oop.Ur hands dont really matter in terms of value but its the value of him calling with a face up range oop.
1:45 You mention that calling would be a leak if you loose more with calling compared to folding. I understand the play in a vacuum is -ev, but if you end up calling only hands that are +ev, you become probably pretty exploitable because you will fold to 3-bets too much, and that will be even more -ev. And also, if you flat more IP, you will get paid more easily when you actually do you have a big hand. It just makes you harder to play against in general. What do you think about this? I ask it because I end up folding a sick amount to 3-bets, and feel like I have to do something about it, and when I started to think about it, my conclusion was just to defend -ev, because it prevents you from being exploited with a lot of 3bets.
31:00 You mention that you raise vs smaller pairs, ace highs etc. Why is raising better than calling? I mean, isn't it likely he will c/f those hands on the turn, so basically you get an extra street more of information and you have to risk the same price with calling flop and betting turn when checked to. Or do you think you will get barreled a lot on a flop like this? If so, why do you want to have a raisingrange, since it prob is also better to flat big hands and therefore it will be hard to balance on the flop if you start raising backdoordraws.
51:00 You say that you basically don't have Kx in your range, why not? Is this because you are likely to 4bet AK pre, fold KQ on flop, fold KTo pre and therefore you basically have only KTs in your range and maybe TT?
AJ you say it is an option to call flop, jam turn, if villain has an insane wide range pre flop and likes to barrel. Why not just call it down? I mean, you beat air, and he is likely to check Tx on the river, so his range will be Kx and air with most his range being air. You have to invest the same amount, but you get an extra bet out of him.
1:45 You mention that calling would be a leak if you loose more with calling compared to folding. I understand the play in a vacuum is -ev, but if you end up calling only hands that are +ev, you become probably pretty exploitable because you will fold to 3-bets too much, and that will be even more -ev. And also, if you flat more IP, you will get paid more easily when you actually do you have a big hand. It just makes you harder to play against in general. What do you think about this? I ask it because I end up folding a sick amount to 3-bets, and feel like I have to do something about it, and when I started to think about it, my conclusion was just to defend -ev, because it prevents you from being exploited with a lot of 3bets.
I think u generalize too much. U are not defending the same range vs every opponent, U just adjust ur calling range to their 3bet frequencies. How many hands u can call in position vs 3bets also depends on how well u can hand read and play postflop.The better u play the wider u can defend, but that being said , this is only true to a certain extend, since if ur range suddently becomes toooooooo wide, some of ur calls will be -EV. Making a bad call preflop vs the range ur facing , is simply a bad , and rationalizing it by saying stuff like, Im gonna be exploitable, doesnt make it good. U probably dont defend enough in general or adapt ur defending range enough to the different opponents 3bet ranges.
31:00 You mention that you raise vs smaller pairs, ace highs etc. Why is raising better than calling? I mean, isn't it likely he will c/f those hands on the turn, so basically you get an extra street more of information and you have to risk the same price with calling flop and betting turn when checked to. Or do you think you will get barreled a lot on a flop like this? If so, why do you want to have a raisingrange, since it prob is also better to flat big hands and therefore it will be hard to balance on the flop if you start raising backdoordraws.
His flop sizing is too small, u wanna start building a pot here in general.Espcially cos this deep ppl dont 3bet as light to get it in preflop so their overall range is more polarized. Im not saying u should always raise here and fast play but u should definitely have a raising range.The other pro in this hand to raise, is the fact that we will take it down often enough given the prize we are laying ourselfs here on our bluff.U shouldnt forget we only have 8 high here. Having every single backdoor in ur range here on the turn , is simply gonna make it too weak.There are alot of good turn cards for villain to wanna represant. U can see 78 the bottom end of ur range here so getting blown off it , wont hurt u.
51:00 You say that you basically don't have Kx in your range, why not? Is this because you are likely to 4bet AK pre, fold KQ on flop, fold KTo pre and therefore you basically have only KTs in your range and maybe TT?
I dont know why I said that, but we definitely have kq kj with a diamond in our range here.
AJ you say it is an option to call flop, jam turn, if villain has an insane wide range pre flop and likes to barrel. Why not just call it down? I mean, you beat air, and he is likely to check Tx on the river, so his range will be Kx and air with most his range being air. You have to invest the same amount, but you get an extra bet out of him.
U cant call down with aj high here, he s gonna be bluffing with better hands here like bottom pair or small pps he decided to turn into a bluff since he will never win the pot once he cbets and u call, and he checks turn. Imagine how sick u would feel when u call down here and lose to bottom pair.
