44,30 ~ Regarding the 78s hand. u said u like cc the flop. Don't u think villain can play really well vs us if we cc? He can valuebet very well and also pick hands to bluff that have a lot of eq, so in my eyes it just feels like cc is gonna bet us into a lot of trouble vs someone decent? F ex if u didn't have an openender along with your pair, lets say u only have 9x or 7x without a draw, would u play the hand the same way by cc? What do u think?
Whe the turn is an ace, u said u were thinking about c/jam cuz u thought he might fold a T sometimes. Do u think he should? I really think if he continues to barrel turn with a T, which is pretty likely, i just can't see him bf on that card. I'm i wrong here?
44,30 ~ Regarding the 78s hand. u said u like cc the flop. Don't u think villain can play really well vs us if we cc? He can valuebet very well and also pick hands to bluff that have a lot of eq, so in my eyes it just feels like cc is gonna bet us into a lot of trouble vs someone decent? F ex if u didn't have an openender along with your pair, lets say u only have 9x or 7x without a draw, would u play the hand the same way by cc? What do u think?
Whe the turn is an ace, u said u were thinking about c/jam cuz u thought he might fold a T sometimes. Do u think he should? I really think if he continues to barrel turn with a T, which is pretty likely, i just can't see him bf on that card. I'm i wrong here?
Good video man, enjoyed it!
With a bare 7x or 9x my standard is usually to bet/fold. I c/c with the open ender because I felt we have enough equity to c/c a lot of turns and possibly check down whereas due to low equity with just a pair and the poor playability on future cards I don't mind bet folding. Whereas with the hand we had for example we could've shoved turn so even on a bad card we still have enough equity to get it in. I did however get myself into a tough spot and make a slightly -ev fold so that could be an argument for just making it easy and bet/3bet flop or even c/r to get a bluff out of him. However I'm happy to take tough lines with hands it also helps you improve. I got myself into a sticky spot and then reviewed the situation ran some ranges and looked at the math etc. So in the future all of these tough spots if I review them they will become easy spots whereas my opponents will likely be confused and make mistakes.
My equity against a range of a lot of Ax, sets, straights, 2 pair, then things like QJ, KQ is actually 36% to get the money in against that range we'd need 41%. That ofc is sort of the tighest range he can have though and assuming he never folds. So it likely is slightly +ev if he can ever have a wider range things like 85s that are bet/folding give us some fold equity. Given our equity is pretty good when getting it in we need almost no fold equity.
I mean I don't think he'd bet fold Tx against me, unless maybe it's like T5s, a lot of his Tx will have a str8 draw, but I could see him betting a weak Tx for value planning on checking river back but when I shove when the A hits he could fold. I mean it's probably a small % of the time that he folds something like Tx but it's likely non-zero. So adding everything up it's slightly +ev. Basically to sum it up it's just a spot where we have a great deal of equity and the pot is huge so even against a full value range we aren't getting murdered too badly, so against regulars who have at least a small bluffing frequency it becomes good. Against a huge nit I could see it being a fold if they simply aren't bluffing and their 3 bet calling range is stronger.
.... thinking about it some more, what do you think about checking back the turn and bluffing the river? Its very hard for villian to put you on a bluff as thats how you would play your middling pocket pairs. It also gives the villian the chance to bluff on an Ace or Queen river...
.... thinking about it some more, what do you think about checking back the turn and bluffing the river? Its very hard for villian to put you on a bluff as thats how you would play your middling pocket pairs. It also gives the villian the chance to bluff on an Ace or Queen river...
Dont u think he has an easy call with some passively played jack or 10s 99s 88 on some most rivers being 10,9 8 765432 . I mean he did bet pretty small and even though it was 3way and the board texture was pretty dry , he might still put us on a wider range given our position and his preflop wide range having isoed a fish.
Curious what hero is gonna respond to this.:)
I wouldnt be trying to fold out his 88/99/tt hands when i check back turn and bluff river, I'd just be trying to fold out hands like 33/44/55/ak/aq and any random weak pairs he might hit on the river. Because our hand looks like a middle pp when we take this line villian is extremely likely to bluff an ace or queen river too, which adds a lot of value to this line too.
With the AQ hand where you float villians cbet on J22. Are you not tempted to take it to SD rather than bluff when checked to on the turn?
It depends really how often they vbet their good TP's and better on the turn. Ofc the more they check them the less we want to be bluffing since the amount of better hands that we fold out shrinks. I think though by bet/bet on turn/river not only can we get things like 33-TT to fold, some players might fold their weak TP's even if our image is good enough since it's hard to put us on a float.
Calling flop and checking down would be +ev probably but likely not as +ev.
I wouldnt be trying to fold out his 88/99/tt hands when i check back turn and bluff river, I'd just be trying to fold out hands like 33/44/55/ak/aq and any random weak pairs he might hit on the river. Because our hand looks like a middle pp when we take this line villian is extremely likely to bluff an ace or queen river too, which adds a lot of value to this line too.
I do think sometimes he'd maybe even check something like 33 on the flop and give up since it's 3 way. I think what it comes down to is how likely is villain going to fold worse TP's to bet turn and river line. The less likely he is either because he's a station and sort of bluff catchy or our image is so bad the more we should call flop, ch turn, bluff river, because that also narrows his range down to having less TP's. Very often villain with say J8 would vbet river after turn gets checked through. So that would definitely improve our ratio of bluffs in terms of folding out better hands.
Kind of seems like that line of ch turn bluff river would work well for me a good amount because I'll be perceived to have more floats players might try to trap me more or hero me down lighter when I bet/bet. The more inconceivable it is that you can be bluffing the better bet/bet is. Tighter players should def. use that bet/bet line maybe 100% against thinking players. Definitely a good suggestion though for an alternate line.
Just an after thought, would you have played it the same/different had it been heads up on the flop rather than 3way? Obviously being 3way to the flop your float is going to get a lot more credit.
