Around 39 min with the QQ hand at table 1. What are your thoughts on checking turn again? I think people might start vbeting some worse hands, and also i think it really looks like we are giving up, so one of em can easily take a stab with some random hand they might have just to take the pot down. Also sth that is a little worrying to me (even though Aaron said that we could potentially bluff rivers) is that if we vbet turn to thin in this spot, we have to cf rivers a lot, so if we playing someone aware and we check river he could just bet really small and get us off our entire range? Idk maybe I'm wrong about this, but just some thoughts i had when i saw the hand.
Good video! Audio was a bit fucked up last 10min i think.
i'm not that crazy about it just because the board is so drawy at this point, and 3way it seems likely someone is going to have some sort of SD value to call the turn, so i think people will be a lot less likely to bluff with a hand like 89 or something that would have bet heads up. IF you have that read - that someone is just bet when checked to happy - then yeah, i do like checking turn. but i don't think you can assume that by default, plus this hand is pretty far up in our range after flop action in addition to having pretty good relative hand strength vs. their ranges. it's also a spot where we could consider betting some bluffs that were too weak to bet flop, so betting this enables us to remain somewhat balanced.
i'm not so sure a jack bets when checked to. it MIGHT, but it might also be scared of us having QQ/KK, or of someone else playing a hand like A5 really passively, which happens commonly at these limits in my experience. we probably get a bet out of a jack on the river as well, but i think betting the turn works better for our overall range as well as protects our equity in the pot, which is quite important 3way. checking turn to induce could be the best play vs. some, and is likely not that much worse than betting turn in a vacuum, but betting turn has some good metagame implications for us.
i think i kind of passively aggressively addressed his suggestion to bluff rivers in the hand by skeptically going "mmhmm" or something, & i probably should have clarified this in the video, but on MOST rivers i don't like that, just because people at these limits are not good enough to realize Ax is a bluffcatcher and will usually call it in my opinion. that's probably mostly a function of him facing better handreaders than we get down here. as an aside, maybe bluffing an exceptionally good card like the Kh is ok.
not too worried about getting bluffed on the river. we block some unpaired heart combos, and there aren't really any reasonable open enders anyone could have. are you thinking he might turn Jx into a bluff? because that seems rather unlikely to me.
not too worried about getting bluffed on the river. we block some unpaired heart combos, and there aren't really any reasonable open enders anyone could have. are you thinking he might turn Jx into a bluff? because that seems rather unlikely to me.
Ya i agree that people usually don't turn like Jx into a bluff otr, but i mean if we bet turn and check river, he really should right? Cuz we don't have a check callingrange? At least not without dynamics. There is a also a non zero percent chance that someone peels turn slightly wider like TT, KQ or sth which are hands they are probably more likely to turn into a bluff then Jx? It seems to me like if someone picks up on that we are cf every time we check river here its pretty ez to exploit us?
Ya i agree that people usually don't turn like Jx into a bluff otr, but i mean if we bet turn and check river, he really should right? Cuz we don't have a check callingrange? At least not without dynamics. There is a also a non zero percent chance that someone peels turn slightly wider like TT, KQ or sth which are hands they are probably more likely to turn into a bluff then Jx? It seems to me like if someone picks up on that we are cf every time we check river here its pretty ez to exploit us?
Thanks for the answers man.
inevitably you're going to be imbalanced in a lot of spots because you're playing not-so-great players but you assume that, on average, they're not going to be able to take advantage of that. if you tried to remain totally balanced you might soul-crush the 10% of the population that would take advantage of that, but then you'd be giving up an edge vs. the other 90% of the population that wouldn't. as you get more info on guys you can begin to separate them into separate categories and cater your play accordingly, but until then you really just have to assume, on balance, they're going to play like everyone else who looks about the same.
and yeah it's pretty easy to exploit us here since we prob have QQ/KK a lot and are folding river, but you can pick up info from other hands and see if a guy is capable of turning a made hand into a bluff, or if he bets river a lot when you check, which might give you enough info to counteradjust and introduce a check-calling range on the river, but that happens so rarely at these stakes in my experience. I think most guys just go "phew!" and snap check-back JT here.
