The AJ hand in the beginning around 6,30 min. About betting turn 1/3 pot. Don't u think that in villains eyes we cap our range when doing this? Like would we really bet 1/3 pot on this board with a set or 2pair? So if he thinks we are capped then he might just never fold on the river. It is quite an interesting strategy though and def seems to have a lot of benefits. U also said that people spazz and do a bunch of stupid stuff when u bet these amounts, but do we really wan't him to spazz in his particular spot? One last question about this hand, if u were to choose between betting a standard amount like 50ish or sth on the turn, or checking back cuz we think that in these pos when he b/c his range is to strong for us to barrel off, what would u choose and why?
42,00 - Table 4 with the 87o hand. Again the small betsize on the turn. I'm just asking this cuz i'm pretty new to this strategy but what is this doing to our overall range? Like we can no longer get all the money in with our valuehands unless we overbet the river. I assume we are betting this amount with our strong hands as well to strengthen the weaker parts of our range? But why is the small betsize here better then the normal betsize? Esp the deeper we get, it doesn't really make sense to bet supersmall since we do have to worry some about giving villain odds with draws and stuff and the times we have sth awesome and wanna stack him.
U say that u have almost completely removed checking turn from our game. Could u just briefly explain why u think betting is better then checking in this spot? Cuz what i'm worried about here when i bet that i will make bad decesions the times he c/jam.
I don't like these small turn bets with draws or marginal hands because I feel we induce the wrong kind of action from villains. We want him to fold or call, and we signal weakness which can induce a raise which is exactly what we do not want, or offer correct odds for a call vs all sorts of hands. Plus, if we had a big hand we'd like to bet big for value, so it looks hard to balance vs good players. Does the super thin value or cheap bluff value really counter these disadvantages?
You never talked about what i thought was the most interesting hand. When you 4 bet kq and then bet call on QJ5 monotone. I find these spots pretty awkward as i find that unless your playing vs a complete lagtard they just have a really strong range here and your doing well vs nothing really. All of his value range like JJ - AA, AQ have you crushed and all his semi bluffs like as bad as k9 with K of diamonds or bare Ace high flush draw have loads of equity.
I can only really see you being good here if you have a read he flats 4 bets and spazzes out but him having JJ here seems pretty standard for a 1/2 tag.
Obviously nearly all your other options here suck but i just dont think bet calling is the most +EV, thoughts?
The AJ hand in the beginning around 6,30 min. About betting turn 1/3 pot. Don't u think that in villains eyes we cap our range when doing this? Like would we really bet 1/3 pot on this board with a set or 2pair? So if he thinks we are capped then he might just never fold on the river. It is quite an interesting strategy though and def seems to have a lot of benefits. U also said that people spazz and do a bunch of stupid stuff when u bet these amounts, but do we really wan't him to spazz in his particular spot? One last question about this hand, if u were to choose between betting a standard amount like 50ish or sth on the turn, or checking back cuz we think that in these pos when he b/c his range is to strong for us to barrel off, what would u choose and why?
The thing is with betting 1/3 pot, I talk a lot about it doing the following things; inducing spazzes, inducing silly calls, capping ranges, making people make big folds for uber cheap, inducing people to show the strength of their hand by raising, etc.
Some of these contradict each other and it maybe sounds like I'm talking nonsense. The reason I'm not talking nonsense is because it's only useful with a strong element of soul reading. So to answer your question of 'but do we really wan't him to spazz in his particular spot?', I would say 'yes, so long as we use our intuitive sense of this player's level and abilities to decide whether what we are seeing is an uber strong hand that couldn't resist a CR, or some nutjob seeing a non-standard betsize and going bananas because of it.
One last question about this hand, if u were to choose between betting a standard amount like 50ish or sth on the turn, or checking back cuz we think that in these pos when he b/c his range is to strong for us to barrel off, what would u choose and why?
If you're forcing me into a corner, betting to triple wins as people are generally unbalanced flatting raises OOP (ie, they can't resist 3betting nuts and this weakens their flat flop OOP to raise range to the point that it can rarely stand 3 streets).
42,00 - Table 4 with the 87o hand. Again the small betsize on the turn. I'm just asking this cuz i'm pretty new to this strategy but what is this doing to our overall range? Like we can no longer get all the money in with our valuehands unless we overbet the river. I assume we are betting this amount with our strong hands as well to strengthen the weaker parts of our range? But why is the small betsize here better then the normal betsize? Esp the deeper we get, it doesn't really make sense to bet supersmall since we do have to worry some about giving villain odds with draws and stuff and the times we have sth awesome and wanna stack him.
There's well established reasons why betting a normal amount is good. As you say it can set up the PSR better for stacks, it denies people odds to their draws, yada yada. The way I feel about it is that some of these considerations have just become less important.
For example, we have a set on a turn, and want to stack top pair. Yes, betting a normal amount might set up PSR on river, but on the other hand setting up river stacks looks extremely threatening to this 2012 reg and he might make a big and correct turn fold because of it. People are just used to seeing a certain betsize, plan their hand to cope with them, and I feel the element of confusion supersedes other considerations.
U say that u have almost completely removed checking turn from our game. Could u just briefly explain why u think betting is better then checking in this spot? Cuz what i'm worried about here when i bet that i will make bad decesions the times he c/jam.
Yeah I can't really expand on what I keep saying. Checking turns gets us owned a lot, but we don't always want to bet a normal size either. People play bad to it 'cos their unused to it. If we're worried about making bad decisions, then don't do it. It's only good if we're confident of soul reading people's reaction to it.
I don't like these small turn bets with draws or marginal hands because I feel we induce the wrong kind of action from villains. We want him to fold or call, and we signal weakness which can induce a raise which is exactly what we do not want, or offer correct odds for a call vs all sorts of hands. Plus, if we had a big hand we'd like to bet big for value, so it looks hard to balance vs good players. Does the super thin value or cheap bluff value really counter these disadvantages?
Yeah same sort of Qs as above really. Man, you lot really just have to see some of my hands I suppose ha. Basically I've won a lot these past few months, but there's a chance I'd be down money if I'd never underbet during that period.......
You never talked about what i thought was the most interesting hand. When you 4 bet kq and then bet call on QJ5 monotone. I find these spots pretty awkward as i find that unless your playing vs a complete lagtard they just have a really strong range here and your doing well vs nothing really. All of his value range like JJ - AA, AQ have you crushed and all his semi bluffs like as bad as k9 with K of diamonds or bare Ace high flush draw have loads of equity.
I can only really see you being good here if you have a read he flats 4 bets and spazzes out but him having JJ here seems pretty standard for a 1/2 tag.
Obviously nearly all your other options here suck but i just dont think bet calling is the most +EV, thoughts?
Yeah having JJ is standard, but at the end of the day it's 3 combos and what's also standard at 200nl is for people to turn up with complete trash..... the PSR in a 100bb 4bet pot is such that bet folding top pair would just be uber bad even VS a strong range and few bluffs. We're not thrilled of course, but it's just a sigh-get in and get on with life.
In the first flopzilla hand range why did you have AK as a hand to flat on the BTN. Are 200nl Zoom players really making a habit of flatting this hand?
