| steel108 |
WTF!!!!! This must be one of the nicest surprises I have had in awhile......... where was all the publicity for this :) |
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| davey |
WTF!!!!! This must be one of the nicest surprises I have had in awhile......... where was all the publicity for this :)
^This is what I was thinking too. I saw Nuts in the coaches list last night and thought it was odd because there has been no welcome or talk of it and he didnt have a video last night either. Well I'm glad he is here, hes one of the best high stakes (if not the best) players on Stars obviously. |
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| abundance555 |
Thank you leggo!! |
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| shootaa |
Great video, yay Rich! When he snapped the river at the end I was like oooo nooo... |
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| pokersavant2009 |
HOLY HELL! This is surprising to say the least. After a year or so, you tend to think that a training site has given all it has to give, but then Leggopoker keeps pulling you back in.
Keep it up!!! :) |
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| lancelott_ |
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooly **ap. WooooW This just absolutely made my day.
Welcome mister mu**cking nutsinho!!! great vid.
I mean, like NOBODY should tell anybody about what and were leggopoker is, such a redicilous improvments with adding so many amazing coaches to what appeared to be an amazing content already. |
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| Branman |
I'll be going back through this video with a notepad. Such nice work ninja, big ups. |
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| cadmuspeverell |
In the 33 hand at the end when kingbromir check raises the turn and you said you would never do that with any hand doesnt check calling a 7 seem really weak?
If you are pot controlling so much, maybe he should be leading the turn? |
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| Kesky |
I'm so sad you decided to pronounce your screen name the ''American way''. :(
I'm happy you're making videos, though. |
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| fearless |
wow great video. leggo, you could easily charge double what other sites do now. |
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| RunAndGun28 |
@ ~ 2:30 you play a hand against KingBaromir where you chk back K8 on AQxss and the turn brings a 3rd spade, he chks, you bet and he raises. This is a line I take from his situation quite often because I don't assume you to have hardly any flushes in your range while I can still easily have anything.
However, you say that it's bad for him to do with whatever he has, can you explain why you're right and I'm wrong?
Does the fact that this is 5knl and you guys have a lot of history so he likely should assume you are capable of checking back the flop with spades, whereas, I play 400-1knl and opponents just aren't that sophisticated?
Or is it something else I'm missing entirely?
Thanks. |
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| nutsinho |
In the 33 hand at the end when kingbromir check raises the turn and you said you would never do that with any hand doesnt check calling a 7 seem really weak?
If you are pot controlling so much, maybe he should be leading the turn?
Weak is not a term in my poker vocabulary. It is a matter of balance/not turning one's hand faceup. A lot of times choosing to c/r 7x there will be turning most of his worse hands into a bluffcatcher when you don't appear to have all that many bluffs. That is bad. If you have 87dd here you are probably not ahead of a good player's range for putting 4 bets in postflop, but you will be ahead of his range for triple barreling. Most people aren't barreling weakish draws on this turn so hand protection is not a great concern. Lastly, it is an OK spot for him to lead the turn, and better than ever checkraising, but he doesn't have a ton of 7x in his range for flatting a raise out of the small blind, so it seems too exploitable. if the flop were JT3 instead, turn T, then I would certainly recommend that he check/call-lead a fair amount. |
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| nutsinho |
@ ~ 2:30 you play a hand against KingBaromir where you chk back K8 on AQxss and the turn brings a 3rd spade, he chks, you bet and he raises. This is a line I take from his situation quite often because I don't assume you to have hardly any flushes in your range while I can still easily have anything.
However, you say that it's bad for him to do with whatever he has, can you explain why you're right and I'm wrong?
Does the fact that this is 5knl and you guys have a lot of history so he likely should assume you are capable of checking back the flop with spades, whereas, I play 400-1knl and opponents just aren't that sophisticated?
Or is it something else I'm missing entirely?
Thanks.
It's bad to c/r here because I am almost never betting but semi-frequently peeling vs a bet. This means if you have something like KxJs, you probably want to lead the turn and probably bluff the river most of the time. If you have nothing, like T9dd, your odds for just taking a stab are too good to turn down vs my weak range here. It is not a good spot for me to delayed cbet anything because I have so few legitimate hands, so most often I am just going to keep checking even if I have almost no showdown value. In this instance, I made a bet purely as a changeup and it probably was not +EV in a vacuum and certainly not my standard. I probably should have picked a more appropriate hand than King-High to add to my random bluffing range. |
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| nutsinho |
^^ I should have added a third type of hand to the discussion: if you have a hand like AJ above then leading is much better than checkraising, which will have little value other than charging/pricing out my weak hands/draws that fire infrequently, and mostly just burn money the times I show up with a flush or QQ. |
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| thn4 |
sick. more shorthanded and HU too plz. nice video Rich! |
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| steel108 |
I have a TON of questions... if it's too much, then no biggie. If you already answered some questions, then I'm an idiot:
(1)
2:22
-K8cc, check back on A53ss (with back door flush draw).
*Trying to show it down?
*Why not CB since you can barrel some turns (like clubs)?
*When you bet Qs, are you repping KQ? Villan you should know that you rarely have a flush here or an Ace.
(2)
3:54
-Fold A8o
*Are you worried about button + blinds on calling with better aces? Getting 3B a lot?
(3)
5:05
-KQhh bb possible squeeze...
*Don't you pretty well in multiway pots with KQhh?
*Do you lead here mainly because of all your back door draws (straight + flush), plus the dryness of the flop and strength of your lead.
(4)
6:40
-AcJh on AT6hhh
*How would play KhTx in this spot? Donk/call, Donk/get it in, check/call, etc...
*Do you call if he bombs the blank J turn?
*Do you lead because you don't think he will ever bluff the river? If he isn't bluffing or valuebetting, I don't know what he can call with.
(5)
9:40
-KQo on AA23
*What do you do with 99 here since it's basically the same hand as KQ (unless villan is valuebetting 88 and lower)
(6)
11:55
-73hh on Q98r
*Why would you auto 3 barrel this board? It seems pretty dry so slowplaying by villan is good. Wouldn't you rather 3 barrel a board like Q56dd since he won't usually slowplay 2 streets oop with a big hand?
*When he checks and you decide to fire 2 streets, are there any rivers you won't bet?
*Do you like it if villan check calls JTdd since it will be very hard for you to call off?
(7)
14:00
-A5cc on A34 (gutter + backdoor flush draw)
*Are you betting the turn if you pick up the back door flush?
*When you check, are you check/calling? If check/calling, do you call another bet on teh 8 river?
(8)
19:10
-AA on 679rK
*Why don't you bet this turn? He is never folding 98 or T9 here. Do you call a decent sized bet on a blank 2 river?
(9)
22:35
-96cc on 883r
*Do you raise this because of your backdoor draws or was it just random?
*Do you barrel turn if you don't pick up equity?
(10)
29:30
-A7ss on T42r8ss
*I always bet the turn here (If I didn't CB this board) and check/fold on the river. How big of a fish am I?
*On the river, if he bets are you calling? The 8 seems like a horrible card to bluff.
(11)
34:28
-T6dd on 575cc 3 way
* I usually don't CB this flop 3 way w a fish in the hand. How bad is that? There are just so few cards that I can barrel on the turn. Even if an 8 or 4 come off, I don't know how I feel about barreling.
* Do you bomb a blank river? This is one of my biggest problems, I never know when to fire the final bet.
*What hands are you expecting to fold on the turn? The only hand I see are A highs since he probably expecting you to double barrel all your flush/straight draws. |
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| klink- |
wow this is pretty cool |
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| K_Man |
This was a really good video. |
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| gkabl |
how easy is it to make the vids available for Iphone? would be great to add this option if its not to difficult... cheers (btw i have no idea how easy or difficult this is) |
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| kamillion |
real sick vid rich |
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| Vitas23 |
how easy is it to make the vids available for Iphone? would be great to add this option if its not to difficult... cheers (btw i have no idea how easy or difficult this is)
http://www.leggopoker.com/videos/free/298/ |
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| zed. |
marry me |
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| playforfoodz |
i came. 11 times. |
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| clayton |
steel, for the sake of good forum discussion i recommend you delete your post and rewatch rich's video, then come back with 1 or 2 detailed questions.
not to be a hardass, but he outlined hypothetical answers to a ton of your questions, and in good detail.
reading your post seems like you had the audio turned off or something.
were it not so black and white i wouldn't feel obliged to point it out. carry on. |
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| roundcube |
definitely learned a lot from this vid. Nutsinho has solved nlhe. |
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| horse2102 |
i came. 11 times.
yes |
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| desire |
very nice video, couple of questions :
97o hand vs jas, would you have jammed brick rivers as a bluff, and would you have jammed T3s/Q3s for value if the river is an ace ? also what would your reaction be to a flop 3-bet from jas (basically what im asking is if he 3-bets QT3r BVB he really isnt repping anything, but given you had 9 high would you have been forced to let it go or would you call the flop and expect him to shut down on turns and try to take it away with total air?)
another question is regarding leading, noticed you lead KQhh on T84h 4way, what are your thoughts on leading say 22 on A32r vs A32 2tone (given that stacks are 100ish bb, UTG opened, CO flatted, we overcalled from the blinds) ? I feel like despite us having the best relative position and UTG being very likely to c-bet that board, allowing us to trap CO in between, we would be better off leading simply because c/r''ing will create extremely awkward turn/river stacksizes, and c/c kind of sucks because its not a board where you can expect a lot of barrels.
in general, i feel like leading multiway is basically always justifiable unless the stacks are deeper and c/r'ing would be the preferred play (but even then in spots were we are BB, btn opened and SB flatted and the board is coordinated and we dont expect btn to c-bet a whole lot, we should be fine leading a ton)
thanks again for the awesome video and glad to see you on board with leggo, fantastic addition imo and hopefully you'll find a moment to answer my questions |
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| payformybenz |
great video. ty :) |
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| TheChosenOne |
It is not a good spot for me to delayed cbet anything because I have so few legitimate hands
Can you explain this? To me this looks like a good spot to cbet, so when you do check are you not repping a thin valuebet w/ something like A7o or KQ? |
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| desire |
also the AA hand on 976r where you said you might even have to fold to a c/r, do you still feel like its a clear bet and never a check behind ? i feel like checking it back vs aggro opponents because we almost always get to SD while balancing our checking back range very nicely and having a hand that we can always call turn+riv with |
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| Fedoskin |
Awesome video! |
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| Kesky |
steel, for the sake of good forum discussion i recommend you delete your post and rewatch rich's video, then come back with 1 or 2 detailed questions.
not to be a hardass, but he outlined hypothetical answers to a ton of your questions, and in good detail.
reading your post seems like you had the audio turned off or something.
were it not so black and white i wouldn't feel obliged to point it out. carry on.
Yeah, agreed with this. |
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| Graffa |
great vid leggo! |
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| Anthony18 |
OMG OMG OMG!! This is so awesome!!! |
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| acethiest |
Thought video was done very well. Not gonna bother with specific questions as I don;t play this high or know the opponents but you did good job of outlining thought process without becoming too verbose. |
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| texaco |
more plz! |
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| RiverJazz |
Beautiful |
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| grogheadflow |
Welcome! Only halfway thru, love it, but:
AA on AK 976, I just wonder why you don't feel confident 3betting for value on the river? If we need to be good > 50% of the time, and we assume he plays sets the same as straights (discounting 2pairs, even though situationally he had one) then we're looking at more combos of sets than we are straights, if he even calls T8s 100%of the time there PF.....? |
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| grogheadflow |
Oh, and please make more vids than just this one :) |
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| nutsinho |
very nice video, couple of questions :
97o hand vs jas, would you have jammed brick rivers as a bluff, and would you have jammed T3s/Q3s for value if the river is an ace ? also what would your reaction be to a flop 3-bet from jas (basically what im asking is if he 3-bets QT3r BVB he really isnt repping anything, but given you had 9 high would you have been forced to let it go or would you call the flop and expect him to shut down on turns and try to take it away with total air?)
another question is regarding leading, noticed you lead KQhh on T84h 4way, what are your thoughts on leading say 22 on A32r vs A32 2tone (given that stacks are 100ish bb, UTG opened, CO flatted, we overcalled from the blinds) ? I feel like despite us having the best relative position and UTG being very likely to c-bet that board, allowing us to trap CO in between, we would be better off leading simply because c/r''ing will create extremely awkward turn/river stacksizes, and c/c kind of sucks because its not a board where you can expect a lot of barrels.
in general, i feel like leading multiway is basically always justifiable unless the stacks are deeper and c/r'ing would be the preferred play (but even then in spots were we are BB, btn opened and SB flatted and the board is coordinated and we dont expect btn to c-bet a whole lot, we should be fine leading a ton)
thanks again for the awesome video and glad to see you on board with leggo, fantastic addition imo and hopefully you'll find a moment to answer my questions
97o- i would jam blank rivers as a bluff a very healthy amount of the time, but definitely not every time. that would be too exploitable. Jamming Q3s/T3s there is a pretty close decision for me because in a vacuum I dont think it has a ton of merit but it is unlikely I am beat and it does allow me to bluff more often, so it is really close. If he had 3bet vs my air I would be extremely unlikely to attempt a rebluff of any sort.
22 situation- These are spots where you definitely want to mix up your play- I think c/c and lead are close on a rainbow board and c/c, c/r and lead are all close on a 2tone board. It's going to look fairly strong no matter how you continue and there's no secret to getting a ton of value in these multiway spots. I don't want to talk about it too much but I think leading is best on a 2tone board and c/c is best on rainbow- you can draw your own conclusions. |
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| nutsinho |
also the AA hand on 976r where you said you might even have to fold to a c/r, do you still feel like its a clear bet and never a check behind ? i feel like checking it back vs aggro opponents because we almost always get to SD while balancing our checking back range very nicely and having a hand that we can always call turn+riv with
It is a bet because he has a healthy sized c/c range- he will c/c twice with a lot of hands almost all of which you beat while if he leads twice on a random turn and river combination you can almost always call, but your equity isnt really that impressive, and if he checks the turn to you, it is very unlikely that you will get good value |
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| nutsinho |
Welcome! Only halfway thru, love it, but:
AA on AK 976, I just wonder why you don't feel confident 3betting for value on the river? If we need to be good > 50% of the time, and we assume he plays sets the same as straights (discounting 2pairs, even though situationally he had one) then we're looking at more combos of sets than we are straights, if he even calls T8s 100%of the time there PF.....?
Um yea this decision was a lot closer than I addressed in the video and I figured someone would comment on it. Being results oriented it was a clear 3bet but I did not have a clear picture at all of betbets range for taking this line and my general inclination when I see someone play a hand this goofy is that their value range is the nuttiest possible until I am shown otherwise. |
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| Stosh |
97o hand vs jas... you state that you're never raising the QTxo flop with KJ or AJ. I assume you wouldn't raise KJ bc you don't want to face a 3-bet with so much equity. But what is wrong with semi-bluff raising your AJ, gutter plus over? |
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| hq7878 |
A+++++ |
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| aejones |
I think the sets of aces is a 3-bet on the river, given his sizing, I just think it's likely he is 'thinner' for value when he makes it only 1k more.
Although I do agree its really quirky for him to have anything that is for thin value. |
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| harangutang |
Very good video. I really enjoyed the bet sizing commentary. |
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| flaviusO |
I closed it after 15 mins... I don't know if this was a joke of a video like aejones rush poker vid or if you really play that bad... I don't want to offend you but is this your game? Like check/raising A5 on A43 and having no idea why when commenting it or delay cbetting K8 on Axx with a flush draw when the flush hits when it's obv you're FOS or putting money in the pot with 73s on Q98 vs a decent reg... meh... I usually don't comment on people's vids but this seemed such a waste of time watching it... |
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| DennisGPunkt |
@flav
And thats Why you are still playing with a 0,4 ptbb winrate.
Your post just shows off that you think as deeply about Poker as the average Weekend Casino visitor. |
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| flaviusO |
@flav
And thats Why you are still playing with a 0,4 ptbb winrate.
Your post just shows off that you think as deeply about Poker as the average Weekend Casino visitor.
why are you talking to me? do you play poker? have I asked you smg? do we know each other?
As long I pay for this I have the right for an opinion and not be judged for not licking his balls with no reason with posts like: "wow! great vid", "I wanna marry you", "can I have your child", "I came 10 times", etc.. I just wanna know if this is his usual style or is just another high stakes guy clicking buttons, having some fun and expecting wows from retard monkeys... What should I take from this vid? In those 15 mins I saw only mistakes... entering in big pots with no equity, checking back flops and delay cbetting when repping nothing, overrepping our hand and then gay block betting the river hoping for a cheap showdown... oh no, I'm expecting the retard army coming in his defence again, let the dude answer the questions, I guess that's why he made a vid and he's pretty tired of guys licking his balls off... |
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| Isura |
I closed it after 15 mins... I don't know if this was a joke of a video like aejones rush poker vid or if you really play that bad... I don't want to offend you but is this your game? Like check/raising A5 on A43 and having no idea why when commenting it or delay cbetting K8 on Axx with a flush draw when the flush hits when it's obv you're FOS or putting money in the pot with 73s on Q98 vs a decent reg... meh... I usually don't comment on people's vids but this seemed such a waste of time watching it...
lol wow. Did you even listen to the video? This is worst than Steel's post. Amazing how people can miss so much valuable information when they focus on the wrong things. nutsinho laid out a few really powerful general concepts (albeit subtly in some cases). Some spots he was vague but that's probably a combination of design and inexperience making videos. Fill in the blanks yourself, that's the only way to really learn.
nutsinho can correct me, but I'll add what I got from the A5 hand. Maybe the others can benefit.
Not his standard, but he c/r because it looks bluffy (widen his value range), he gets peeled by some underpairs and floats. He said he was comfortable putting in another bet. I think this means he plans to call a small flop 3-bet (very polarized range), and not put more money in. Calling a 3bet looks really strong and really unlikely bluffs continue. Same goes if c/r is called. Plan is to c/c turn because villain's turn betting range is very polarized, so we get bets from his floats. We have outs when behind just in case, and we can c/c turn c/f river with this hand. |
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| flaviusO |
how about 73s and K8s hand... can you explain that? why is he opening 3x from the button? I don't wanna offend him, just wanna know if this is his style... I said I watched 15 mins and most probably I haven't had a thing to learn from this...
well, about the A5 hand: is the worst ace out there no? the guy is raising any ace from button (a milion combinations that have us beat) and never folds so do we expect the villain play back with nothing or pairs that often to make it a profitable play, really? is this the thought process, seriously is this profitable? |
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| Probability |
why are you talking to me? do you play poker? have I asked you smg? do we know each other?
As long I pay for this I have the right for an opinion and not be judged for not licking his balls with no reason with posts like: "wow! great vid", "I wanna marry you", "can I have your child", "I came 10 times", etc.. I just wanna know if this is his usual style or is just another high stakes guy clicking buttons, having some fun and expecting wows from retard monkeys... What should I take from this vid? In those 15 mins I saw only mistakes... entering in big pots with no equity, checking back flops and delay cbetting when repping nothing, overrepping our hand and then gay block betting the river hoping for a cheap showdown... oh no, I'm expecting the retard army coming in his defence again, let the dude answer the questions, I guess that's why he made a vid and he's pretty tired of guys licking his balls off...
If you want to get as much as possible out of Rich's answers I suggest coming up with clear and concise questions in the future. Being polite couldn't hurt either. |
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| flaviusO |
My question was simple and I said 3 times I don't wanna offend anybody: is this the style he usually plays (that got him more than 1 mil over the sample PTR is showing) or that was just another vid where a high roller was having fun at the tables pissing on the money like aejones' rush poker vid. |
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| nutsinho |
i dunno flavius i certainly wasn't goofing around and think i played pretty well overall. maybe you want to check out the rest of the vid, maybe not, up to you. if u would like to play me heads up for a video i promise not to play any better. |
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| nutsinho |
also your thought process seems to be really shallow. these aren't standard hands that you are picking on of course, but I think I played the A5 and 73 hands pretty well and you aren't appreciating what I was going for. I did misplay the K8 (or I should take this line with it an extremely small %) but that has already been discussed above. I guarantee that I can make just about anyone a much better NL player but in the future I won't be responsive towards such blatant rudeness. |
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| DennisGPunkt |
how about 73s and K8s hand... can you explain that? why is he opening 3x from the button? I don't wanna offend him, just wanna know if this is his style... I said I watched 15 mins and most probably I haven't had a thing to learn from this...
well, about the A5 hand: is the worst ace out there no? the guy is raising any ace from button (a milion combinations that have us beat) and never folds so do we expect the villain play back with nothing or pairs that often to make it a profitable play, really? is this the thought process, seriously is this profitable?
The A5 hand:
The c/r looks absolutely bluffy, so there are tons of hands he can go ahead with and float, expecting us to c/f alot of turns or alot or rivers (pretty much anything with backdoof flush/backdoor straight outs). He also can call with all PP's, 22 and 55 because of the wheel draw everything else because he expects us to not bluff him later on in the hand so he can get to showdown most of the time.
Hoewever, while this spot might not be the best spot to c/r on in a vacuum, it might create a certain game dynamic that you can use later on. It also might give us information about the way our opponent thinks about our c/r range in general if the hand gets to showdown.
But since you are not think about perceived ranges, game dynamic and balancing at all while playing 15 tables i recommend just stick with the rakeback plan... |
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| grogheadflow |
Flav, if we don't get any more vids 'cos of your rudeness I'm going to be furious! I'm only guessing that such rudeness is the reason certain tier 1 Leggo Pros haven't made a video in like forever, but I reckon it's a good guess. |
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| flaviusO |
i dunno flavius i certainly wasn't goofing around and think i played pretty well overall. maybe you want to check out the rest of the vid, maybe not, up to you. if u would like to play me heads up for a video i promise not to play any better.
I don't have BR for 5kNL to play you... I started with 25nl when I began poker, it isn't that easy getting to 5knl that soon...
Why do you open 3x from the button, do you think is more profitable than 2.5x? I see you wanna win every pot no matter the equity you have, wouldn't be better for you to have bigger stacks behind when playing pots? I mean, you could easily call more 3bets and try to bully people off their hands no?
I don't know why you get so offended, I was just asking a question that I am in title to ask... You could just say it when releasing the vid that you are looking to hear only replies like: "I came 10 times" and "I wanna have your kids", seriously... It could save me time, I just wanted to know if that is the game you need to crush 5knl on Stars...
Just curious, are you playing for stacks on flop with A5 there or on the river when betting so gay are you calling a raise? I just wanna know cuz your thoughts when commenting the video were: "I don't think there is a ton of merits for this play" and "on the river I think is slightly -EV".. Now you are saying you played fine...
@grog: sorry man, Everton is on top form... tough team man...
@gpunkt: please man, I don't wanna argue with you.. I haven't asked you a question, leave me alone with your life, I checked you on PTR and you seem to be beating the stakes with 0.4bb/100, not me... |
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| steel108 |
I have been REALLY busy donating money while tilting the past few days so I didn't get a chance to check here.
First, I watched the video 3 times before I posted my questions. Clayton is right that nutsinho infers the answers to my questions if we fill in the gaps. But the questions still have to be asked.
I'm fairly certain (99%) of the answers to all my questions, BUT what if my thought process is completely off and I have some fundamental leaks? This is the first time I have EVER asked questions in response to a video because it's nutsinho. Also, some members might not know the answers at all. They will just see nutsinho's video and mimic it without really knowing why. THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH A LOT OF REGS. Am I wrong in thinking that Leggo doesn't want it's members to fall into that trap? I guess according to Isura, it's DUMB to be concerned about that; you're a video maker and a coach right? Good job.
Honestly, this isn't some random video. THIS IS NUTSINHO!!!!. You know damn well that members are going to mimic everything he does. It's paramount that we flush out the thought process so member don't act like robots. If he doesn't respond to the questions I'll be ok; I already know the answers. But what about the members that don't know the answer? First, they will be too embarrassed to ask questions because Clayton and Isura said it's fairly obvious. Second, they will be probably spew money in games. I thought it was important for less experienced members, but my bad. |
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| Vitas23 |
This is a video analysis thread, lets keep it that way! I am going to delete all posts not related to this video. |
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| Cristina_M |
Grog, don't you think your assumption is a little too much of jumping to conclusions? Now really...I am 150% sure that I will be smashed by most of the replies, just because there is a lot more in my dealing with Flav than just a regular forum discussion, but I do not care and I will post my opinion regardless. Hope it will not offend anyone, as it is not meant to ;)
So, I do respect most of you guys, and even though I barely post on this forum, I am a regular reader, and I really believe Leggo helped me a ton in my poker endeavors. But this way of rejecting an active user just b/c he has a different opinion than the rest of the players mass, and based on the fact that he asked some questions (that offended a coach, even though every question was related to the video...nothing personal or family related)...is something that makes me wonder about how open minded people here really are.
When a user pays for the information he gets, I believe he is entitled to at least ask a question about the services he gets in return for the money he paid. It's like in any other business. I mean if you go to a car rental service and the car you are offered cracks down after a hundred miles, will you be happy about it? I don't think so... It could be the best car ever and you might have got unlucky by choosing that specific car, but you will always ask if the company is able to offer you any other...better than that. I'm sorry if I am not coherent, but you got the point I'm sure...
It's not about hating or anything like that...I know Flav better than anyone here. He is a little too picky about certain things and he might not always be able to express himself the most polite way, but the essence to it stays the same. He was expecting an answer from nutsinho, when DennisGPunkt sarcastically replied, explaining that Flav is a brainless player who is not able to understand the magic in nutsinho's video. When people do not understand certain things, they ask tons of questions, which to someone who gets the point of things may seem retarded, but that's no reason to call him names or reject him like that. It's a pity that, instead of coming up with solid replies in order to clear the blurred aspects of a certain issue, some people will always choose to call names, feel offended, blame it on haters for not keeping up with their activity here.
I'm only guessing that such rudeness is the reason certain tier 1 Leggo Pros haven't made a video in like forever, but I reckon it's a good guess.
BMW will never stop selling cars only b/c a customer complained about the features of a certain car ;) Critics should always be constructive... |
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| Isura |
I have been REALLY busy donating money while tilting the past few days so I didn't get a chance to check here.
First, I watched the video 3 times before I posted my questions. Clayton is right that nutsinho infers the answers to my questions if we fill in the gaps. But the questions still have to be asked.
I'm fairly certain (99%) of the answers to all my questions, BUT what if my thought process is completely off and I have some fundamental leaks? This is the first time I have EVER asked questions in response to a video because it's nutsinho. Also, some members might not know the answers at all. They will just see nutsinho's video and mimic it without really knowing why. THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH A LOT OF REGS. Am I wrong in thinking that Leggo doesn't want it's members to fall into that trap? I guess according to Isura, it's DUMB to be concerned about that; you're a video maker and a coach right? Good job.
Honestly, this isn't some random video. THIS IS NUTSINHO!!!!. You know damn well that members are going to mimic everything he does. It's paramount that we flush out the thought process so member don't act like robots. If he doesn't respond to the questions I'll be ok; I already know the answers. But what about the members that don't know the answer? First, they will be too embarrassed to ask questions because Clayton and Isura said it's fairly obvious. Second, they will be probably spew money in games. I thought it was important for less experienced members, but my bad.
I dunno, the tone of your post just came out wrong I guess. I'm def not trying to discourage discussion. It would be better if you actually put your interpretation/thoughts in addition to the questions. Because he definitely answered many of the questions during the video, the reason why Clayton made the initial post. |
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| IcarusJam |
don't mimic what he does but know why he does it and try to incorporate it into your game, mimicing any video is pure suicide, good video, you explained your thoughts well, things didn't work out, i wish everyone would stop being a ginormous crybaby when they try this and it doesn't work so they come yell at him in the video comments, come on people, seriously? you think you can do this stuff at ssnl where ppl are 24 tabling SNE nut peddling? stop leveling yourselves |
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| aejones |
Is there any other video site where the pros give this much feedback on their videos? |
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| aejones |
I have a TON of questions... if it's too much, then no biggie. If you already answered some questions, then I'm an idiot:
(1)
2:22
-K8cc, check back on A53ss (with back door flush draw).
*Trying to show it down?
*Why not CB since you can barrel some turns (like clubs)?
*When you bet Qs, are you repping KQ? Villan you should know that you rarely have a flush here or an Ace.
Why wouldn't he have an ace? An ace is a likely check back a good % of the time on a board like this.
(2)
3:54
-Fold A8o
*Are you worried about button + blinds on calling with better aces? Getting 3B a lot?
For a long time I made the mistake of opening too many SBs and COs with weak aces. I still make those mistakes. In a game with active regulars where you're getting 3-bet a lot and whatnot and the perceived extra action you get on just a few extra CO opens isn't high enough because your image is already where you want it, you can make those folds which you previous perceived as neutral EV image plays (opening light in certain spots, for example).
(3)
5:05
-KQhh bb possible squeeze...
*Don't you pretty well in multiway pots with KQhh?
*Do you lead here mainly because of all your back door draws (straight + flush), plus the dryness of the flop and strength of your lead.
Yes. He has some equity relatively "clean" equity plus it's hard for anyone to lead into 3 people with air. I am not the biggest fan in the world of this lead but Chewy and I agreed it certainly isn't terrible.
(4)
6:40
-AcJh on AT6hhh
*How would play KhTx in this spot? Donk/call, Donk/get it in, check/call, etc...
*Do you call if he bombs the blank J turn?
*Do you lead because you don't think he will ever bluff the river? If he isn't bluffing or valuebetting, I don't know what he can call with.
Once he decides not to bluff the turn it is unlikely he'll bluff the river (it is also very unlikely he's got anything at all). His lead is primarily to induce and to stop people from PC'ing hands that we have great equity against.
(5)
9:40
-KQo on AA23
*What do you do with 99 here since it's basically the same hand as KQ (unless villan is valuebetting 88 and lower)
99 is a little stronger because he said specific villain is 3-betting small pocket pairs. However unlikely, villain could technically be betting turn again with those hands. I would imagine relatively strength wise though his hand is v similar and he'd fold the turn a lot.
(6)
11:55
-73hh on Q98r
*Why would you auto 3 barrel this board? It seems pretty dry so slowplaying by villan is good. Wouldn't you rather 3 barrel a board like Q56dd since he won't usually slowplay 2 streets oop with a big hand?
*When he checks and you decide to fire 2 streets, are there any rivers you won't bet?
*Do you like it if villan check calls JTdd since it will be very hard for you to call off?
It's not really very dry, there's a good chance villain has pair plus straight draw. Sure, that Q65 board is okay to 3-barrel as well, if the timing is good. I'm sure there are some board pairing rivers, or other random rivers based on his timing that Rich won't 3-barrel.
(7)
14:00
-A5cc on A34 (gutter + backdoor flush draw)
*Are you betting the turn if you pick up the back door flush?
*When you check, are you check/calling? If check/calling, do you call another bet on teh 8 river?
The CR was primarily to get a reaction of some sort. I'm sure there was some gameflow or timing or seventh sense that would allow for check-call turn to be right, or bet turn and check-call river, or just check-fold turn. If you make a play like this you are trying to illicit something from your opponent, usually a float on a board like this because we are check-raise bluffing the flop so frequently.
(8)
19:10
-AA on 679rK
*Why don't you bet this turn? He is never folding 98 or T9 here. Do you call a decent sized bet on a blank 2 river?
Since his check-raising range is polarized on the flop it is also polarized on the turn. We are "probably" WA/WB (maybe not WA, but ahead enough to where letting him see one more is less of an issue than him CR'ing and us getting it in behind). His plan for the river was probably "Soul Read."
(9)
22:35
-96cc on 883r
*Do you raise this because of your backdoor draws or was it just random?
*Do you barrel turn if you don't pick up equity?
It's a pretty good likelihood the answer is both and maybe.
(10)
29:30
-A7ss on T42r8ss
*I always bet the turn here (If I didn't CB this board) and check/fold on the river. How big of a fish am I?
*On the river, if he bets are you calling? The 8 seems like a horrible card to bluff.
Just relax and construct ranges (including primarily other draws) that he's got. We have showdown value, so account for that. I would say a medium sized fish, like maybe a walleye.
Would depend on what level villain is on. Maybe he is on the level that he bluffs terrible cards like live pros or maybe he is on the level that he is too smart to bluff a bad bluff card and thus must be betting thinly for value.
(11)
34:28
-T6dd on 575cc 3 way
* I usually don't CB this flop 3 way w a fish in the hand. How bad is that? There are just so few cards that I can barrel on the turn. Even if an 8 or 4 come off, I don't know how I feel about barreling.
* Do you bomb a blank river? This is one of my biggest problems, I never know when to fire the final bet.
*What hands are you expecting to fold on the turn? The only hand I see are A highs since he probably expecting you to double barrel all your flush/straight draws.
I don't think it's bad. C-betting this flop a low % of the time would be fine, imo.
Figure out if he's more likely to call when the board gets scarier or fold when the board gets scarier. Use some kind of a hand where he calls down a bluff or something to figure out which he is. Also figure out what he thinks of you, and then use that information to decide whether you should fire the last shell. |
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| aejones |
I decided that I would answer those questions that steel posted in a concise manner so that we didn't spend too much time on them. I certainly don't mean to put you down steel because I know you are a regular contributor to Leggo and our video threads. I simply thought that a lot of the answers were relatively obvious or already explained in the video and I figured that I didn't want them to go unanswered so I took a lot at them myself.
Rich can feel free to elaborate on them but I watched the video in its entirety with none other than LuckyLouie and feel like I am fit to answer them. |
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| aejones |
Flavius you are entitled to your opinion and welcome to choose to watch Rich's next video or not watch Rich's next video. You are also an active member of Leggo and I'm sure that you'll get plenty of value from other people's videos if you choose to go that direction. I also thought the tone of your first post was a little harsh instead of inquisitive, but since this is not Nazi Germany we let Leggo members express their opinions. Personal attacks will be kept out of this thread, however. |
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| aejones |
Carry on. |
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| aejones |
i dunno flavius i certainly wasn't goofing around and think i played pretty well overall. maybe you want to check out the rest of the vid, maybe not, up to you. if u would like to play me heads up for a video i promise not to play any better.
I think you played well too. The number one criticism LuckyLouie and I had was when you almost squeezed the KQs. I think squeezing it there blows real badly, I think it would be good if and only if there was a donk in the pot that you could essentially isolate. I think it sucks when you get 4-bet and I don't think you get hood-flatted enough by worse Ks or Qs to be very happy about it. I would much rather 3-bet squeeze KQo because don't dominate flush draws. |
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| steel108 |
Thanks a lot for answering the questions Aaron. You are the man. AEjones or nutsinho, it's all the same. My biggest problem was that some of the greener members of Leggo wouldn't understand the thought process behind each play and become spaztards. If I explained it, it would probably fall on deaf ears since I'm a nobody. |
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| don caballero |
walleye are good eatin |
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| brandysbich |
Flav could've been a lot nicer with his post, but like him i wasn't nearly as blown away by this video as everyone else seems to have been. I only watched half the vid because I watched it at like 2am after my last session but partly also because I just didn't get a whole lot out of it the first 20 mins (which is fine i mean you never really had anything to work with in that time frame).
Obv nutsinho's results speak for themselves and i'm sure he'll go on to make plenty great vids for leggo, but you have to wonder how much of the praise for this particular vid is just from fanboys not wanting to disappoint their idol.
The vid was fine from what I saw imo |
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| nuvan |
Just wondering your reasoning behind checking behind the 64o on AJ6r A
board and folding to turn bet. I can understand checking behind as we have SD value and the villain (the spot at the table) can definitely have alot of broadway hands in their range which will most likely peel. But on the turn with a seemingly great turn card you fold, i don't get why.
Cheers, Nuvan. |
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| LouisLouis |
I absolutely loved the video and took a ton out of it. I especially liked hearing your reasoning and thought process behind your game. It's so easy to do the "standard thing" and be autopiloting on alot of seemingly standard "non negotiable plays".
Some questions:
You said you fold AQo in sb vs a tight UTG raiser:
-what is your calling range here? and what about your 3bet range?
How do these ranges change if your in the bb and it's folded to you?
AA on 976r, you said you would have likely folded vs a normal CR:
-I'm sure you base your decision on who's CR you. But am I understanding you correctly that you are likely to bet fold here vs a seemingly std regular a decent percentage of the time?
A9o you fold in the CO and SB when folded to:
-some times you play really nitty and other times over aggro, according to yourself. I'd be interested hearing what your "general" 6max vpip/pfr stats would be like?
You 3bet KTo sb vs bt, but later said you oftentimes just fold here:
-I'd be really curious hearing how often you 3bet in bb and sb vs LP (bt and co) steals? as this is an area of my game I'm often thinking about.
Lasty, you said you've lost a ton playing on tilt and in games you shouldn't have:
-me too. It's really astonishing how much money we sometimes bleed without truly grasping it and thus we pay a big price money wise, but also mentally. I wish you all the best and I'm really looking forward learning more from your videos. |
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| dangerfish |
Great video--just finished watching it for the second time. Really appreciate the comments about bet sizing and some other non-standard plays you made. IMO your value lies in the fact that you can present some more creative plays and thought processes that are not often seen in instructional vids today. Thanks again, good work. |
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| Ulkis |
Very good video. Lots of subtle and not so subtle points on situations which separate an excellent player from the field, for example:
33 on 37J flop. Turn is 7.
Ulkis: "great, looking good, I am strong, will barrel"
Nutsinho: "not so great, me betting now will make my range look so strong"
Good scoop for Leggo. |
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| Ulkis |
I dunno, the tone of your post just came out wrong I guess.
Please read steel's post again. Any "tone" there except overly apologetic, don't think so. His questions may have been too elementary for some, but many leggo subscribers who play small stakes and don't get to see this high quality videos that often from higher stakes might appreciate being able to understand/connect the dots that link small/midstakes and 25/50.
That's what I would like to know: what is the difference how a crushing 400nl player and a crushing 25/50 to nosebleed player think about poker concepts. Getting some verified answers to steel's questions might've helped in understanding that.
Lots to study about that video that's for sure. |
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| Merlinius |
At the beginning you say you are loose aggressive preflop (notice the word "loose") and then you fold KQ to a button open and when you 3bet T9s you feel like you need to justify it because it's so "unconventional". I mean, your style works for you and that's great. I just found that funny.
Would you share your VPIP/PFR for those 25/50 6max games? |
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| aejones |
Oh btw when you folded KQ vs that 50 bb stack luckylouie and I dropped our jaws. |
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| grogheadflow |
Just watched again:
You say your postflop style ranges from very loose to very tight. Am I right in assuming that there's often no in-between? |
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| higgy1020 |
I absolutely loved the video and took a ton out of it. I especially liked hearing your reasoning and thought process behind your game. It's so easy to do the "standard thing" and be autopiloting on alot of seemingly standard "non negotiable plays".
Some questions:
You said you fold AQo in sb vs a tight UTG raiser:
-what is your calling range here? and what about your 3bet range?
How do these ranges change if your in the bb and it's folded to you?
AA on 976r, you said you would have likely folded vs a normal CR:
-I'm sure you base your decision on who's CR you. But am I understanding you correctly that you are likely to bet fold here vs a seemingly std regular a decent percentage of the time?
A9o you fold in the CO and SB when folded to:
-some times you play really nitty and other times over aggro, according to yourself. I'd be interested hearing what your "general" 6max vpip/pfr stats would be like?
You 3bet KTo sb vs bt, but later said you oftentimes just fold here:
-I'd be really curious hearing how often you 3bet in bb and sb vs LP (bt and co) steals? as this is an area of my game I'm often thinking about.
Lasty, you said you've lost a ton playing on tilt and in games you shouldn't have:
-me too. It's really astonishing how much money we sometimes bleed without truly grasping it and thus we pay a big price money wise, but also mentally. I wish you all the best and I'm really looking forward learning more from your videos. would really like to see this guys questions answered. |
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| nutsinho |
I absolutely loved the video and took a ton out of it. I especially liked hearing your reasoning and thought process behind your game. It's so easy to do the "standard thing" and be autopiloting on alot of seemingly standard "non negotiable plays".
Some questions:
You said you fold AQo in sb vs a tight UTG raiser:
-what is your calling range here? and what about your 3bet range?
How do these ranges change if your in the bb and it's folded to you?
AA on 976r, you said you would have likely folded vs a normal CR:
-I'm sure you base your decision on who's CR you. But am I understanding you correctly that you are likely to bet fold here vs a seemingly std regular a decent percentage of the time?
A9o you fold in the CO and SB when folded to:
-some times you play really nitty and other times over aggro, according to yourself. I'd be interested hearing what your "general" 6max vpip/pfr stats would be like?
You 3bet KTo sb vs bt, but later said you oftentimes just fold here:
-I'd be really curious hearing how often you 3bet in bb and sb vs LP (bt and co) steals? as this is an area of my game I'm often thinking about.
Lasty, you said you've lost a ton playing on tilt and in games you shouldn't have:
-me too. It's really astonishing how much money we sometimes bleed without truly grasping it and thus we pay a big price money wise, but also mentally. I wish you all the best and I'm really looking forward learning more from your videos.
1. I dont really want to talk about that
2. Yes and Yes. I mean, I usually have a pretty good sense of when i am being messed w/. If I don't think I am being bluffed too often then of course AA is a flop fold on that board. Call with TT though.
3. Um not sure. I dont use any tracking software and only know what I've been told periodically. 2 years ago I was playing 17/14 and within 6 months I was probably at like 29/23. Right now I am somewhere in between.
4. My OOP 3betting varies a lot and I don't use ranges that are anywhere near constant. I start out a session playing one way and often finish it playing quite the opposite. |
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| Fabsch |
stop narrating the action and talk about interesting what-if scenarios
good job answering the questions tho |
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| BackNdaLEFT |
Is there any other video site where the pros give this much feedback on their videos?
agr33d and that continued feedback i'd imagine will continue to put leggo out front in terms of the competition, if that wanes and leggo gets complacent like others have i'd expect a dip in participation and earnings like others.
AEJONES your a good Human for answering all those questions, things like that make this site an attractive site to work for when the quote un quote star player-owner is willing to get in there and do the dirty work, always the sign of a good team. way to not pull a T.O.
sorry for the cheesedick sports analogy. |
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| jordgubban |
Great vid, looking forward to the next one. |
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| Kesjan |
Why do you sound like your high?
Nice vid btw not hating or anything ur awsome |
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| Bondosu |
Thanks for the vid nutsy |
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| lottobot16 |
you never use HUD ? why and why not ? :p |
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| nizzles |
Thanks to all for sticking around to answer so many questions, really adds value to the video as a whole.
Imo nutsinho did a very good job of showing us some of his stylistic tendencies which I rather liked, as well as giving sound overall advice.
For all these reasons I rated the video a 10, would def like to see more in the future. |
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| Badgers |
fucking outstanding
Thanks for all the analysis itt as well. |
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| Socratitties |
So great, just keep em coming baby! |
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| Greg29 |
More more quick quick |
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| Iplayterrible:( |
“I think the thing that matters most in bluffing psychology is whether your opponent thinks you would or wouldn’t bluff in that spot or you would or wouldn’t value bet.” Imo this is a reasonably profound statement. I sort of been indoctrinated by training sites,books, forums,etc. that it's all about balancing your ranges(which you said yourself that you were incredibly balanced). My question is how do you know if villian will think you would or would be bluffing in that spot? I'm assuming it's the same thing of just having a wide betting/raising range,where your opponent has literally seen you bluff/bet in that specific spot correct? |
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| vexx |
I can't see this video and it makes me so frustrated.....what can i do?Do i need to make a standard membership or something? |
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| Vitas23 |
I can't see this video and it makes me so frustrated.....what can i do?Do i need to make a standard membership or something?
Yes, sign up here. . . http://www.leggopoker.com/compare/. |
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| zorgan |
Great video. I have a question about As7s [Tc4h2s 8s] 3 way pot. Flop was checked through and you check/call the turn against button bet. Don't you think that he might just bet for protection (take down the pot 3way is not that bad) hands like 4x, 55-77 or even maybe some better ace highs which he pot controlled the flop with. It would be ugly to lose to hands like that. Isn't it better to bet or c/r the turn? Or you felt that after checking the flop you won't be able to rep much? Thank you. |
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| zorgan |
Another question is about KQ [AAx] hands BTN/SB in 3bet pot. You said his range consists of a lot of pps which he could EITHER bet the turn c/f the river OR c/c the turn, c/f the river. So did you think about goiing with you plan and float the turn also? He could probably bet again with hands like 88-JJ on the turn for value/protection and c/f river, couldn't he? |
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| livepokerLOL |
great vid 9.99/10 would be awesome if you did mention what if scenarios |
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| davisimo |
It is indeed a great video and what I was impressed by the most was the responses. What Grog said might be right though! The hate might have meant nutsinho didn't bother the second time round as they're are no responses in the 2nd video thread despite a very good Q from yours truly
9.99/10 btw! |
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